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Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

reuters.com

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Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#51

Post by kiiski »

simonh wrote: post #10
Raed667 wrote: post #5

Sounds like the best way to hide any editing done to the original tapes. puts foil hat on

It's ok, you can take the foil hat off. The broadcast from the moon was relayed live to TV stations across the world. The tapes they're talking about were just NASA's recordings of that direct broadcast. So there never was any opportunity for the tapes to be edited like that, because they didn't sit in the chain between the cameras on the moon and the broadcasts everyone saw on their TVs. Fortunately other news organ…

> Therefore a faked broadcast from tapes would have had visible transitions as they switched from tape to tape.

In other words you're saying that one should believe NASA landed on the moon, because broadcasting a fake recording would have been technologically too difficult for them?

I don't doubt that they landed on the moon, but I'm not quite convinced about that logic ;)

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#52

Post by drzaiusapelord »

ceejayoz wrote: post #33
romanovcode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because there were no documents in the first place. I think we never even landed on the moon to begin with.

And what, the Soviets and the Chinese decided to go along with it?

Who cares what they think? I hate that the argument for a moon conspiracy is defended by the opinion of other states. In fact, Chainman Mao had an unofficial policy of denying the moon landing out of shame. Russia isn't a trustworthy nation and the US could have have a quid-pro-quo with them, say not bringing up their 100+ deaths at Nedelin or lost cosmonauts if they didn't make hay about a faked mission.

The reality is that there's a lot of physical and historical evidence here and denying it is fairly ridiculous.

What I find hilarious about this is that the deniers don't deny any other mission. Why is it that we can launch all this mass with no problems and have all these wonderful missions all over the solar system, but once we pressurize a cabin in space and land it on the moon, suddenly these people are in denial. Their position would be more rational if they denied all space missions.

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#53

Post by creshal »

coldpie wrote: post #50
Agustus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mr. Smith does not deny climate change science, he is a skeptic, not the same. As a congressman, he is afforded the roles of his position to investigate corruption or suspicions of corruption, which in this case includes an agency using taxpayer dollars avoiding the release of information to a committee. The NOAA situation is one where the agency should openly share data with the committee and Mr. Smith would go away…

"""It was inconvenient for this administration that climate data has clearly showed no warming for the past two decades. The American people have every right to be suspicious when NOAA alters data to get the politically correct results they want and then refuses to reveal how those decisions were made. NOAA needs to come clean about why they altered the data to get the results they needed to advance this administrati…

> NOAA provided Rep. Smith with all the data, methods, and explanation he requested but has refused to hand over the communications of its scientists, which it regards as protected.

I'd better hope so.

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#54

Post by Retric »

irixusr wrote: post #37
karlkatzke wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think at the time, most folks at NASA expected moon landings to be commonplace within a decade.

The crazies, maybe. I hope not most NASA folk; there really is no way for lunar landings to have been common using chemical propellants and disposable rockets. Even today alternatives are mere speculations. So either our NASA dreamer was a poor engineer, or a nut job willing to nuke Earth to visit a lifeless rock. Which is not a bad thing: given the immensity and ludicrousness of the Apollo accomplishment, I think NA…

It takes about as much energy to get into orbit as it does to fly from NY to Japan. So, regular trips to the moon could end up fairly cheap even with chemical rocks.

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#55

Post by Navarr »

kiiski wrote: post #51
simonh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ok, you can take the foil hat off. The broadcast from the moon was relayed live to TV stations across the world. The tapes they're talking about were just NASA's recordings of that direct broadcast. So there never was any opportunity for the tapes to be edited like that, because they didn't sit in the chain between the cameras on the moon and the broadcasts everyone saw on their TVs. Fortunately other news organ…

> Therefore a faked broadcast from tapes would have had visible transitions as they switched from tape to tape. In other words you're saying that one should believe NASA landed on the moon, because broadcasting a fake recording would have been technologically too difficult for them? I don't doubt that they landed on the moon, but I'm not quite convinced about that logic ;)

The fun thing about that argument is that if NASA _didn't_ land on the moon, then it falls apart!

"If NASA has the power to land on the moon, clearly they could've faked a broadcast."

"If you're saying they didn't land on the moon, though, how can you use that as technological proof to edit the broadcast?"

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#56

Post by rdudek »

icehawk219 wrote: post #48
rdudek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! This is another great explanation of the vent that I can use against those who think moon landing was fake. In the past, I always told folks that landing occurred during Cold War and USSR was watching closely. If this was faked, Soviets would love nothing better than to discredit the US worldwide.

This video[0] on Youtube does a good job explaining the whole "video technology didn't exist" part that most people, myself included, don't realize. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXTF6bs1IU

Thanks. That is a great video.

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#57

Post by thearn4 »

karlkatzke wrote: post #36
NameNickHN wrote: post #16

> We should have had a historian running around saying 'I don't care if you are ever going to use them -- we are going to keep them' The really couldn't figure out by themselves that they shouldn't throw away the visual evidence of one of the most important events in human history?

I think at the time, most folks at NASA expected moon landings to be commonplace within a decade.

Not to mention, if you are given a task that requires use of the same type of tapes and are not offered any funding to procure unused ones, then you will have no choice but to record over them. As a government employee, I see this as the most likely scenario.

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#58

Post by golergka »

Agustus wrote: post #43
irixusr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazies, maybe. I hope not most NASA folk; there really is no way for lunar landings to have been common using chemical propellants and disposable rockets. Even today alternatives are mere speculations. So either our NASA dreamer was a poor engineer, or a nut job willing to nuke Earth to visit a lifeless rock. Which is not a bad thing: given the immensity and ludicrousness of the Apollo accomplishment, I think NA…

In Apollo 13 the movie, there is a scene where the NASA representative is walking politicos on a tour: JIM LOVELL - I'm slated to be the commander of Apollo 14 sometime late next year. CONGRESSMAN - If there is an Apollo 14... Now, Jim, people in my state have been asking why we're continuing to fund this program - now that we've beaten the Russians to the Moon. [1] The chasm between what NASA wanted, pilots down, wa…

Why people blame politicians that accurately represent people's views? If you have a bigoted, stupid, awful politician who's popular without fraud or dishonest competition practices in general, may be you should blame education, may be the media, but the politician himself is just doing his job — representing the people. The bigoted, stupid, awful people.

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#59

Post by Agustus »

golergka wrote: post #58
Agustus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Apollo 13 the movie, there is a scene where the NASA representative is walking politicos on a tour: JIM LOVELL - I'm slated to be the commander of Apollo 14 sometime late next year. CONGRESSMAN - If there is an Apollo 14... Now, Jim, people in my state have been asking why we're continuing to fund this program - now that we've beaten the Russians to the Moon. [1] The chasm between what NASA wanted, pilots down, wa…

Why people blame politicians that accurately represent people's views? If you have a bigoted, stupid, awful politician who's popular without fraud or dishonest competition practices in general, may be you should blame education, may be the media, but the politician himself is just doing his job — representing the people. The bigoted, stupid, awful people.

I am not blaming the politician, just noting the chasm in the NASA projections and what the politicians are pivoting on.

Re: Moon landing tapes got erased, NASA admits (2009)

#60

Post by nzp »

Two issues with the article. It is my understanding that the lost tapes are raw data feed S-band recordings. That signal contained both the TV signal and the telemetry which was normally sent via S-band. Upon reception the TV signal was split from the telemetry and recorded to standard TV tape and broadcasted using a Telecine like method. So, the "original" TV recordings do exist, as the existence of restored recordings suggest. What is gone is the telemetry mixed with the TV signal.

Secondly, they didn't erase those tapes because of money savings, or at least not just because of it. It was a supply issue. In the late '70s, early '80s, the manufacturer of those tapes suffered production problems due to the replacement of a substance used in the tapes, if I remember correctly it was whale oil or something like that. The production needed to be scaled back up with the new process, and in that time there was a severe shortage of that particular type of data tape, so NASA had to recycle old tapes.

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