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Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

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Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#241

Post by wodenokoto »

akshatpradhan wrote: post #224
the_watcher wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is always the part of the anti-Snowden case that baffled me. Those who seem to think that he alerted terrorists to the most secure means of communication seem to assume that, prior to the Snowden leaks, they were communicating by yelling really loudly across the NSA buildings. It's like they simply forgot about the biggest reason it took so long to find Osama bin Laden: he was so security-concerned that he used…

I understand what you're saying, and I agree. But I think it might be a little disingenuous to use Osama Bin Laden's crypto practices as an example. I believe this is the more interesting story of what really happened with Bin Laden? >Pakistan secretly captures Bin Laden by bribing tribesmen. The US finds out by bribing Pakistani officials. Further bribes with foreign aid money get other Pakistani officials to issue…

I fail to see how story b contradicts the parent post. If Osama was easily traceable there was no need to bribe everyone.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#242

Post by sliverstorm »

nickbauman wrote: post #228
akshatpradhan wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree. But I think it might be a little disingenuous to use Osama Bin Laden's crypto practices as an example. I believe this is the more interesting story of what really happened with Bin Laden? >Pakistan secretly captures Bin Laden by bribing tribesmen. The US finds out by bribing Pakistani officials. Further bribes with foreign aid money get other Pakistani officials to issue…

Those are some pretty big claims, have any evidence to back them up?

The less evidence and the more faith involved, the more captivating the conspiracy theory. That's how they work.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#243

Post by jacquesm »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #212
marcosdumay wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does, it looks random (hight entropy). Yes, measured data and unmarked compressed data have this same property, as do actual random data. But is does not look like 9 nines of false positive rate are a concern to those people.

You can set the entropy to any amount you want. You need to consider encryption methods that put in at least a bit of effort to hide themselves. It could select random phrases and pretend to be a spambot.

Or it could look like the output of a Markov chain sentence generator on the topic of religion and post the messages in some well-known forum.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#244

Post by Bud »

pfg wrote: post #50
melling wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be overlooking the obvious argument that if a small group of people use encryption, then you greatly reduce the number of messages that you need to flag. Furthermore, if someone on a Watch List starts using encryption then perhaps you have an imminent problem. I'm not on the side of reading messages but you missed the real argument being made. Typical HN. How about someone answering the argument that will…

> You can downvote me but you don't get a downvote in governments around the world when they outlaw real encryption. I'm pretty sure you can downvote them by voting for representatives that do not support such laws. At least if you're in some kind of democracy.

Not in a gerrymandered district. It won't do you any good, even if you presuppose the existence of a pro-encryption candidate, which is a bad supposition.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#245

Post by tertius »

rbcgerard wrote: post #154
colund wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If (almost) everyone who is not a terrorist were to give up encryption, then it would be much easier to track down/narrow down the terrorists if they keep using it, no?

Indulging this fantasy, it begs the question of whether those (enencrypted) communications would have been targeted and flagged for analysis

How does it beg the question?

There is no truth being asserted in the premise causing the conclusion to be true. It's fairly clear that it was a statement from an original source, that source being trustworthy is where we would find (or not find) the information which would show the conclusion to be true, not the premise of the 'fantasy.'

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#246

Post by TillE »

freshhawk wrote: post #239
snowwrestler wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that federally-mandated backdoors increase the chance of compromise (although they certainly do). If the U.S. government can mandate that technology companies provide access through encryption, then so can other countries. Sovereignty is still a powerful concept under international law. So imagine if Apple, upon condition of selling iPhones within China, must provide the Chinese government with a backdo…

> I don't think that federal intelligence and law enforcement officials calling for backdoors have fully thought through the consequences I think assuming that level of incompetence is a big claim. It's simply much more likely that the actual plans/goals and the talking points and press releases about the plans/goals are mostly unrelated, as usual. You can infer that those calling for backdoors have decided that call…

> I think assuming that level of incompetence is a big claim.

Not really. Have you listened to the average member of Congress lately? Incompetence runs deep throughout all levels of government.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#247

Post by laotzu »

exelius wrote: post #116

In my mind, it comes down to what a society's priorities are. If the priorities are Freedom > all, then encryption is a necessary tool. If the priorities are Prosperity > Safety > Freedom > all, then society will run roughshod over freedom.

>A politic minister will study to lull us into security, by granting us the full extent of our petitions. The warm sunshine of influence would melt down the virtue, which the violence of the storm rendered more firm and unyielding. In a state of tranquillity, wealth and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war, and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. Every art of corruption would be employed to loosen the bond of union which renders our assistance formidable. When the spirit of liberty which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin, and render us easier victims to tyranny. Ye abandoned minions of an infatuated ministry, if peradventure any should yet remain among us!—remember that a Warren and Montgomery are numbered among the dead. Contemplate the mangled bodies of our countrymen, and then say, What should be the reward of such sacrifices ? Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood, and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude, than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

-Sam Adams, American Independence Speech, August 1, 1776.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/American_Independence

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#248

Post by Malstrond »

jcl wrote: post #141
scotty79 wrote: post #28

> writing messages via in-game functions, like spelling words with dropped items or shooting walls I'm kinda ashamed I haven't thought of that.

I think this may be the most important thing in the article. If the conspirators really were communicating via in-game ephemera, the communication probably wasn't encrypted at all. If so, the hurdle that the security forces faced is not that they couldn't access the communication, but that they couldn't interpret it. And that just shows how little a mandatory backdoor policy would help: being able to read something d…

It would not be the first time that obscurity is confused with security.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#249

Post by [deleted] »

WildUtah wrote: post #96

Countries fail to police immigration, promising us that it will go well and we'll all benefit. Then they demand our civil liberties so they can police the immigrants they invited. And our taxes have to rise to pay welfare to them. But don't worry; a few million more and we'll all be better off.

[deleted]

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#250

Post by curun1r »

nickbauman wrote: post #228
akshatpradhan wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree. But I think it might be a little disingenuous to use Osama Bin Laden's crypto practices as an example. I believe this is the more interesting story of what really happened with Bin Laden? >Pakistan secretly captures Bin Laden by bribing tribesmen. The US finds out by bribing Pakistani officials. Further bribes with foreign aid money get other Pakistani officials to issue…

Those are some pretty big claims, have any evidence to back them up?

The only thing that lends credibility to the story in the post you're responding to is the person who's claiming it's the truth. Seymour Hersh [1] has enough of a track record that we shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. As far as evidence goes, I'm not sure the official story has been proven any more than Hersh's story has, so it's hard to know what to believe.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

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