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VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

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Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#251
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How easy it is to change the policy adopted and executed for over 5 decades [0]. During this period both of the parties have sufficiently ruled Washington with same policy. Glenn Greenwald provides further documentation that the various Middle Eastern and North African wars were planned before 9/11 [1] "General Wesley Clark … said the aim of this plot [to “destroy the governments in … Iraq, … Syria, Lebanon, Libya, S…

Bush jr (may he burn in hell eternally for all the fallback of his reign) being super eager to find any excuse to attack Iraq was super-obvious to anybody outside US during those times. That's why France & Germany didn't join Iraq effort, it was just too ridiculous without any good reason, when another dictatorship just across the border was more than OK (saudis), and let's not forget most attackers including Osama w…

> Bush jr

The next installment may be on the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeb_Bush

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello. I really like your honesty, courage and passion that I can sense from what you wrote. I don't want to sound offending, but you are saying that you are happy to discuss this and I have almost no contact with deep religious persons that are in IT, so I have a couple of questions. 1. Where is the boundary of your beliefs? I'm always trying to be polite with my dev co-workers, but for example if I write a flagged…

I hope you don't mind my taking this post as an open invitation for anyone to reply to, but I thought I should reply as well. 1. I love talking to people with different beliefs. If we have a respectful debate based on our best evidence I assume we will both learn something. 2. Facts are facts. However, I think all people build world views around those facts which interpret those facts in ways that are consistent with…

I'm not sure why you conflate the fiction of The Da Vinci Code with the cogent writings of Dawkins.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#253
> [They] receive direct support from many countries in the region. Namely from rich oil-producing countries.

I assume the author is alluding to Saudi Arabia here.

How absurd is it not of the West to

* on one hand is claim to oppose Islamic terrorism, while

* on the other hand having among the closest allies in the region what probably amounts to the most radical, fundamentalist, human-rights abusing and not the least culturally and religiously influential states there, preaching religious intolerance to a world-wide audience of susceptible followers.

Recently, Nicholas Nassim Taleb, author of Black Swan, wrote[1] a thoughtful commentary on the situation:

> Since 2001 our policy for fighting Islamic terrorists has been, to put it politely, missing the elephant in the room, sort of like treating symptoms and completely missing the disease.

> Policymakers and slow-thinking bureaucrats stupidly let terrorism grow by ignoring the roots. So we lost a generation: Someone who went to grammar school in Saudi Arabia (our “ally”) after September 11 is now an adult, indoctrinated into believing and supporting Salafi violence, hence encouraged to finance it — while we got distracted by the use of complicated weapons and machinery.

> Even worse, the Wahhabis have accelerated their brainwashing of East and West Asians with their madrassas, thanks to high oil revenues.

> * * *

> So instead of invading Iraq, blowing up Jihadi John and individual terrorists, thus causing a multiplication of these agents, it would have been be easier to focus on the source of all problems: the Wahhabi/Salafi education and the promotion of intolerance by which a Shiite or a Yazidi or a Christian are deviant people.

> If we absolutely need to put people in Guantanamo, it would be far more effective to ship the Salafi preachers and Wahhabi clerics over there, not just the people swayed by their teaching. And if we need to correct the profound Saudi problem, we need to start by sending to them our preachers, educating them into tolerance, explaining the very concept of the separation of church and state. Or, better even, encourage Muslim preachers who promote religious tolerance (“laka dinak wa li dini“) — instead of seeing them ostracized.

> And if you find violence unavoidable, it should be directed at the Saudi and Qatari funders of violence, as well as the Salafi theorists, rather than the young performers.

> P.S. Beware the usual ISIL crypto-sympathizer who sort of “explains” (that is, justifies) what happened (the intentional targeting of civilians) with some other Western event that can hark all the way to the Crusades… Otherwise it is presented as “biased.” You can spot such people from a mile away. For them, you cannot condemn ISIL without at the same time trying to be “balanced.” Who are they fooling? This is the technique of bundling together problems that should be treated independently, and you need to learn to deal with such people by forcing them to discuss the problem of ISIL on its own.

[1] http://www.politico.eu/article/the-saudi-wahhabis-are-the-re...

(edited for formatting)

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're open to discussion I'd like a word less on the tenants of Christianity but more on the experience. Many highly conservative Christians are portrayed as angry, blind, even openly judgemental and rude. E.g. I read an article on NYT discussing some conservative Christians talking about how all gays need to be put to death. Do you feel judgemental or upset when people exist that are very wrong according to your…

> some conservative Christians talking about how all gays need to be put to death I live in the deep south and have never heard such viewpoints from a Christian.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/campaign-stops/... Forgive me, I'm not from USA, is Iowa the deep south?

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/27/us-mideast-crisis-... World | Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:36pm EDT Related: WORLD, UNITED NATIONS, FRANCE, SYRIA France launches air strikes against Islamic State in Syria UNITED NATIONS/PARIS | BY JOHN IRISH AND DOMINIQUE VIDALON France said on Sunday it launched its first air strikes in Syria, destroying an Islamic State training camp in the east of the country to prevent the group…

Intersting, thanks for the link, but it doesnt really answer the question of exactly how many strikes did it participate in on Syria, and what were the death tolls? (Numbers, not percentages)

"France had until now only struck Islamic State targets in neighboring Iraq"

So, zero. They participated in 3% of the air strikes in Iraq, 0% in Syria.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. Significant numbers of non-Islam subscribers hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society too. All these people have at least one thing in common: they would like to change society to suit their ends. And a very large number of people in my country would happily throw back those fleeing the carnage to become v…

>And a very large number of people in my country would happily throw back those fleeing the carnage to become victims of that 40% That statement really doesn't make much sense at all. People are fleeing a war, among them people from the 40% and the 60% group alike. And no one in Europe is advocating throwing anyone back into a war zone. Many want the refugees stay somewhere in the region instead of letting them come…

> And no one in Europe is advocating throwing anyone back into a war zone.

Ah, you must be a bit out of touch with recent developments in NL. We're soon to have elections and it looks like we'll have Geert Wilders for prime minister, his main motto is 'close the borders', the secondary one is 'the problem is the foreigners' and the third is 'let's throw all those refugees out'. And whether it is exactly 40% or not is immaterial, the numbers are scary.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/09/geert-wilders-party-is-the-...

That's 30% declared right there, another 10% undeclared would not surprise me at all.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello. I really like your honesty, courage and passion that I can sense from what you wrote. I don't want to sound offending, but you are saying that you are happy to discuss this and I have almost no contact with deep religious persons that are in IT, so I have a couple of questions. 1. Where is the boundary of your beliefs? I'm always trying to be polite with my dev co-workers, but for example if I write a flagged…

Whilst I'm not the OP I'll happily give my thoughts as a not very good Anglican - who embodies the "great Anglican fudge". 1. Offended no. I'll think you're rather rude, the same as if I wrote $manifestDestiny = false. If you know someone you can have banter with them. 2. IT has all sorts of articles of faith. vi versus emacs, I'm weird as I like nano. Religion is a way of living your life, my code is in no way affec…

Thank you for your honest answers.

Let me respond to your counter question.

I'm considering myself as an atheist. I graduated law and (but) I'm currently working in IT.

What I found about myself and my own beliefs ( good vs. bad ) is basically a consequence of thousands of years of human civilization absorbed and morally embeded in human beings and in logically written laws.

So basically what I believe doing is good or what I believe doing is bad is defined purely based on logical concepts, incorporated mostly in our legal systems. Yes there are different legal systems, there are different cultural standards, but if you take a look at it, I bet :

1. Every legal system punishes killing, stealing, frauds, etc.

2. Every legal system has an exclusion of the first rule : self-defense, non-voluntary ( accidental ) steal, etc.

3. Every legal system also regulate the civil rights of people agains other people. ( Continental Law states that for a divorce there is a blame that might lie in one of the partners, based on this the other claims compensation - imagine cheating ).

So yes. You can find multiple examples for the most of the actions and you will see that they are mostly regulated.

e.g.

1) You found a passport on the street - By law you are obliged to return it to police ( good deed )

2) You drink a beer on the street - Based on the law you can decide if this is well received or not ( In Berlin it's pretty much everywhere )

etc.

For all other actions, that have no consequence in society and which are not regulated. I choose based on my own opinion and mood.

e.g.

1) Should I give a penny to that homeless person? Well If I feel in the mood, I would, If I don't I probably won't do it today.

2) Should I talk back to a rude person? If I feel really offended, I will most certainly do, usually I don't give a F.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#258
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

Yes it is scary. I believe that love conquers all fears. I do not make any pretense that some people in this world are truly my enemies. They want to destroy me and all I hold dear. These enemies do not love me, do not want to love me, do not want to understand me or know me or anything I stand for. Yet I must love them. Not just because I am commanded to. I do it because it is who I am. My very identity is tied up i…

Self-defense is not hate.

Consenting to slaughter is not love.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#259
post #238
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, well. I think the key word is naïve. There's a mosque around the corner from where I live, and a lot of people called Mohamed and Hilay and so on live in the area. Few of them visit that mosque, so if your extrapolation were right, there should be a considerable number of murdered apostates. Which there isn't.

You do know how the process of computing an average works? Im guessing you're not living in, say, Egypt or Pakistan, are you?

No. I live in a city with a considerable number of muslims and a considerable number of apostates. Isn't that the kind of place where you'd expect apostates to be killed, if anywhere?

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. Significant numbers of non-Islam subscribers hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society too. All these people have at least one thing in common: they would like to change society to suit their ends. And a very large number of people in my country would happily throw back those fleeing the carnage to become v…

> they would like to change society to suit their ends. What would be those means employed by non-Muslim radicals to effect social change? I'm inclined to say that urban warfare and terrorizing an entire population with open aggression tactics are not among them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
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