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18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

brendansudol.com

81–90 of 136 posts

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#81
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on what you were saying about a co-existing forum? I don't think I understand what you mean, but I'm intrigued.

It sounds like a group of people abused the Social Group feature of vBulletin[1] to piggyback off of his forum to have their own little area without having to host their own forum/server. Depending on how vBulletin is configured, you can basically create a wholly independent forum within the Social Group that can't be accessed/seen outside of the group. [1] http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Help:VBulletin:So…

Yup, I believe that's what they used. It's a documented feature, but one that I was completely unfamiliar with. I also opened registration, but wasn't monitoring new signups.

There wasn't any harm to it, but it's definitely something that can slip by an insufficiently wary admin.

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any form of volunteering replaces some amount of paid work. The pros and cons need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. If volunteers do just enough free programming to drive professionals out of the market, it's possible the result will be that less work gets done. I don't think soup kitchens have the same risk.

This was the common argument 10 years ago as open source CMSes - primarily WordPress and Drupal - started becoming more common. That eventually web developers would be entirely replaced by people who just configure plugins/modules. As we've seen, software development has stagnated and almost gone away in the ten years since.

Open source CMSes increase efficiency - by reducing the amount of work required to set up a website, they mean that the time and money saved can potentially be used for more productive purposes. Working for free doesn't do that; it involves the same amount of work and time, just for free.

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#83
post #75

Given the tendency of HN toward libertarian and free market approaches, I've been consistently surprised at the suggestions being made around this. This is free markets gone right: A buyer and seller finding the most efficient price for each.

What? No it's not. If anything, it's the opposite of that. There is no way this guy could survive on that little money.

So? The free market makes no concessions about who can live on what

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#84
I think if there's any lesson to be taken from this it's that presenting bounded, well-described (and thus easily undertaken) sub-projects is probably more effective than simply inviting developers to "help out" in some non-specific manner on a larger open-source efforts.

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#85
post #20

Working for free is a luxury for the people not struggling to ends meet. "Oh, I already got paid elsewhere, but let me work for free and outbid others who are doing this as their primary job" is the unstated context and it feels a tad bit smug and elitist. Personally, I think that the goal should be to get paid while you work on open source. But, I know that its not an option for everyone. >I use open source technolo…

How does the same argument not apply to everybody with full-time employment who works on FOSS projects?

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#86
This is a great outcome for that story. I must admit, I did too assume it was trolling behaviour when I saw the bidding on HN.

He wanted to do the work, he got what he wanted, and the US Government got the job done for just $1!

Not sure how anyone can see this but a victory for the US public.

18F is, I think, a fantastic initiative; I hope HM Government takes note - could be fantastic here in the UK too.

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any form of volunteering replaces some amount of paid work. The pros and cons need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. If volunteers do just enough free programming to drive professionals out of the market, it's possible the result will be that less work gets done. I don't think soup kitchens have the same risk.

> The pros and cons need to be evaluated on a case by case basis. Utilitarianism? Watch it quickly spiral into a shit show. These same concerns and arguments are nothing new. People have been bemoaning the evils of open-source and it's socialist ways as unethical and selfish for years. And look how the software market still flourished. In many cases, directly off the backs of unpaid developers. There's a good chance…

So I think most people completely miss this when they see it, but I love it when people call "socialist" things selfish. It's the very definition of irony that something done "for the benefit of others" is deemed to be done solely for the person's ego. Personally, I don't see open source as inherently socialist anyways, but that's another topic entirely.

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#88
post #26

On a side note, there are a lot of hoops to actually work with 18F. I don't blame the guy for just wanting to do a project and move on with his life.

Brendan would have had to jump through the hoops to work with 18F, including the SAM validation. Unless you are talking about working directly for 18F as a federal employee, which would have different levels of requirements.

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So donating anything is elitist? Most things that are donated are things that someone else provides for a price, so you will always be "taking a job" from someone else. If you donate things then you're still buying it from someone, but giving it to someone that cannot afford them. So really, you're a surrogate purchaser. The problem comes in when you're donating time (via work) to a group that can afford to pay for…

> The ethics and morality of giving is kind of complicated. No, it's really quite simple. It's the ethics and morality (and circuitous justification) of being upset by others giving that's complicated. I built a friend of a friend a billing system for his fledgling business. Didn't charge a dime. I even got sucked in to support for much longer than I really wanted, since no good deed goes unpunished. Was it unethical…

1) Maybe? Did they have the resources to pay someone? And, as you pointed out, you got sucked into support for a role you didn't get paid. This increased their dependency on you and pulls you out of your normal economic/professional role. Probably not unethical, but certainly led to undesirable results (for you, great for them).

2) Your free consultancy extends his runway, which means he has a greater chance of success and puts him in a better position to contribute by hiring and spending in the future.

3) You also keep the retail chain in existence, and have spent your money more wisely rather than overpaying (by labor rates at least) for someone else to do what was actually a quick and easy job.

Honestly, though. You seem to be thinking that I'm opposed to giving. All I said is that it's complicated when you start giving to (and sometimes, in essence, taking from) others. Look at that Africa t-shirt versus textile manufacture example in another thread. Millions of people clothed, thousands of people out of (otherwise sustainable) work. The calculus is non-trivial. Clothing people is a good thing. Putting thousands of people out of work is probably a bad thing (depends on what the work is, and what they can do after it). Which one outweighs the other. In the long term, eliminating an industry from a region is probably going to turn out to be a worse thing as it eliminates the ability of those individuals participating in it to feed and clothe themselves and contribute financially to their local economy. Compared to other forms of giving (versus free t-shirts) that would have enabled people to build up more businesses and industries where they would then be able to afford and/or manufacture more clothing (or whatever other needed goods) locally/regionally. Or purchase them from abroad by producing some goods/services they could sell globally.

Re: 18F's Micro-Purchase Experiment: Why I Bid $1

#90
post #20

Working for free is a luxury for the people not struggling to ends meet. "Oh, I already got paid elsewhere, but let me work for free and outbid others who are doing this as their primary job" is the unstated context and it feels a tad bit smug and elitist. Personally, I think that the goal should be to get paid while you work on open source. But, I know that its not an option for everyone. >I use open source technolo…

>"Oh, I already got paid elsewhere, but let me work for free and outbid others who are doing this as their primary job" is the unstated context and it feels a tad bit smug and elitist.

Not seeing a big difference between that and "Oh, I already make enough at my day job, now let me produce FOSS that competes with commercial software which are some people's primary job."

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