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Why New York Subway Lines Are Missing Countdown Clocks

theatlantic.com

21–24 of 24 posts

Re: Why New York Subway Lines Are Missing Countdown Clocks

#21
post #8

I'll take the New York Subway system any day over what Boston has (MBTA).

To better clarify, I feel this battle around the spending on NY subways is trivial compared to the fundamental infrastructure issues in other cities (for this example, Boston).

Re: Why New York Subway Lines Are Missing Countdown Clocks

#22

The meat of the story is that the MTA purposefully allows their system to remain crippled to drum up public money. > That’s why the MTA has tried to associate CBTC [a enormous overhaul of the signal system for the subway] with countdown clocks. New York riders crave realtime information about trains. They don’t care how they get it. So when Transit wants to drum up support for an obscure, costly, many-decades-long ca…

Arguably the non-cynical way that the MTA is thinking about it is that if CBTC gives you countdown clocks, bolting on an additional system just to do countdown clocks is extraneous cost. Basically $(CBTC) + $(Separate Countdown Clocks) > $(CBTC). Of course, that's how requirement creep often sets in. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just throw another feature in there while we're at it? That has to be cheaper than building…

The article mentions the MTA has a constraint of never shutting down a line, but this conveniently ignores the fact that the B line was split into two pieces for ~ 18 years (1986-2004) while the track on the Manhattan Bridge was being reworked. The fact that it took 18 years to rework this 1 mile length of track points to the real issue, not the fact that NYC cannot accept "downtime".

Re: Why New York Subway Lines Are Missing Countdown Clocks

#23
post #21
post #8

I'll take the New York Subway system any day over what Boston has (MBTA).

To better clarify, I feel this battle around the spending on NY subways is trivial compared to the fundamental infrastructure issues in other cities (for this example, Boston).

How so? Do you ride the NYC subway? The MTA is more an employment agency than an agency of change. For example, they have been working on the 2nd avenue subway, phase 1 only (a total of 3 stops) since 2007 and it's still not done. Projected completion is now December 2016. This two mile section of track is billions over budget and years behind schedule.

Re: Why New York Subway Lines Are Missing Countdown Clocks

#24
post #15

By way of contrast - not only does the London underground have countdown clocks on platforms (accuracy +/- 1 minute), they also have an API allowing 3rd party developers to integrate tube (and bus) times into transport apps. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/open-data-users/

For what it's worth, the London Underground has significantly less complicated interlocking patterns (with more transfers between trains instead). Check out some of these crazy layouts, like the Dekalb area or the 47-63rd St map: http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_Track_Map...

London Underground doesn't yet have CBTC on the complicated lines, though it's in progress and due to be completed in 2022. The cost is over £5 billion, which based on the numbers in the article doesn't seem a likely level of investment for NYC.

They try and explain it to the public: https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tube-improvements/behind-the-sce...

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