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State of emergency in France

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191–200 of 239 posts

Re: State of emergency in France

#191
post #130
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need targeted surveillance and by that I mean something that many will vehemently disagree with. Before you down vote, please make the effort to read to the end and then down vote! If I was a doctor and my patient had cancer in his foot, then if try to treat the foot to get rid of the cancer. I would also pay particularly close attention to the leg connected to that foot, to make sure that the cancer did not sprea…

I have argued since 2000 that terrorism is a problem of TECHNOLOGY. Technology enables small groups of people that previously were unable to do much damage to do a lot more. And that will only increasez If you read what I said back then, I said that I see mass surveillance as the inevitable outcome of that. All the political correctness in our countries isn't going to stop this reaction, and its attendant overreactio…

With the very notable exception of 911, that's simply not true.

The Madrid bombings, the various India and E. Africa attacks, the French attacks from earlier this year and yesterday-all of these could have been carried out with almost exactly the same with planning a century ago, or with ease a half century ago.

9/11 was the only one of all those attacks that truly used technology in a new and frighteningly innovative way. And almost no one thinks that will happen again, because every plane passenger in the world knows that unopposed Islamic radical hijackings are a death sentence, and so will without exception revolt en masse, even if it causes the plane to go down (indeed, there's significant evidence that passengers had adapted to this terrifying reality within an hour of the initial attacks, i.e. United Flight 93).

Re: State of emergency in France

#192

Multiculturalism has failed. One of the gunmen (or should I say gun-people for the feminists) landed in Greece as a "refugee". https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst/status/665558503528882176

I suppose we can look forward to the next Franco-German war. Also, I want all the Catholics/Muslims/Protestants/Jews/Hindus/Agnostics/Atheists out of my town and out of my workplace. Perhaps corporate America and SV can adopt a WASP-only policy. [1]

Millions of innocent, terrorized, poverty-stricken refugees and one commits a crime - by all logic, the problem is refugees.

[1] To leave no doubt, this is sarcasm. I do not mean it; it's stated as a satire of the absurdity of such thinking.

Re: State of emergency in France

#193
post #185
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder why I never see this one on lists of choices: 5. Stop killing large numbers of Muslim people in the Middle East every week and see if that doesn't make them less likely to kill comparatively small numbers of people in Western cities every couple of years.

Perhaps you talk about the 2000 french terrorists in Syria killing thousand of Syrians ?

I don't think they can be called terrorists, if they fight against the armed forces of ISIS. They don't knowingly attack civilians (surreptitiously).

Re: State of emergency in France

#194
post #18
post #5

Didn't France approve sweeping surveillance laws back in July? And they even were on high alert due to international talks happening in Paris... Italy and Spain also stopped terrorist cells this month, but they don't seem to have such laws... Guess they need more unwarranted power, uh?

We need targeted surveillance and by that I mean something that many will vehemently disagree with. Before you down vote, please make the effort to read to the end and then down vote! If I was a doctor and my patient had cancer in his foot, then if try to treat the foot to get rid of the cancer. I would also pay particularly close attention to the leg connected to that foot, to make sure that the cancer did not sprea…

A few thoughts:

1) I strongly oppose sacrificing the rights of other innocent people to protect me. Their religion doesn't make any difference in my feelings.

2) The adoption curve on surveillance tech has reached the point where people (and governments) think it's the solution to every problem.

3) I would be very suprised if that surveillance hasn't been in place for awhile

4) Why is prevention of crime by Muslim criminals treated differently than crime by Christian, Jewish, Atheistic, or other criminals?

Re: State of emergency in France

#195
post #187
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just morally questionable, it's outright wrong. Unfortunately trying to stop genocide with violence and failing miserably is even more wrong. On the other hand using supposed genocide as excuse to forward geopolitical interests would also be wrong. Given how Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq wars have turned out, I'm not in favor of meddling. Given how nobody gave single fuck about Khmer rouge, I don't believe i…

Because it is better to let your own terrorist grow the biggest terrorist owned zone, and build an enormous army full of cash ? This is exactly what create this big projection power that make successful terrorist attack in France.

I didn't quite understand. Who is growing biggest terrorist zone? What what army, what cash?

Re: State of emergency in France

#196
Remember the goal of terrorism is to terrorize you. It's to get the maximum effect of very limited resources; right now 8 people have around a billion (or more) panicked. Wow.

If they are scaring you - especially into a state of conflict - they've won. There were only 8 of them. They can't really threaten you.

ISIS wants irreconcileable division and conflict between people who are Muslim and others. Are you giving it to them - and because of 8 people? The real conflict should be between peace-loving people and violent nutcases like ISIS - then our enemy is vastly outnumbered.

France's response should be to counter ISIS' goals, and heal divisions between people of different religions. Eliminate their ban on clothing worn by Muslims, accept more refugees; nothing would be more crushing to ISIS than people of all faiths living peacefully, happily side-by-side, as friends, neighbors, and families.

Re: State of emergency in France

#197
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't try to do that. I just think that conflict fueling unrest more than anything else. And it's lot easier to imagine Israel to disappear than to imagine half of Islamic world to disappear.

> I just think that conflict fueling unrest more than anything else. Despite the attention it receives, Israel is actually a pretty localized issue. It has very little to do with the biggest conflicts in the Middle East. If Israel weren't around, Syria would still be destabilized and we would still have ISIS. Also, your rhetoric around wiping Israel off the map kind of gives your agenda away.

My agenda. :D

I got the idea of wiping Israel off the map from PLO "peace suggestion". I'm not going to pick a side in that stuff. I'm just extremely cynical that there would ever be peace.

Re: State of emergency in France

#198

Remember the goal of terrorism is to terrorize you. It's to get the maximum effect of very limited resources; right now 8 people have around a billion (or more) panicked. Wow. If they are scaring you - especially into a state of conflict - they've won. There were only 8 of them. They can't really threaten you. ISIS wants irreconcileable division and conflict between people who are Muslim and others. Are you giving it…

> nothing would be more crushing to ISIS than people of all faiths living peacefully, happily side-by-side, as friends, neighbors, and families.

People living in Syria and Iraq have their cities bombed by western armies. People in Lybia saw it earlier. Maybe they lost their friends or relatives in a war. Sorry but your naive words about peaceful living would sound like a bullshit to them.

Re: State of emergency in France

#199

Remember the goal of terrorism is to terrorize you. It's to get the maximum effect of very limited resources; right now 8 people have around a billion (or more) panicked. Wow. If they are scaring you - especially into a state of conflict - they've won. There were only 8 of them. They can't really threaten you. ISIS wants irreconcileable division and conflict between people who are Muslim and others. Are you giving it…

> nothing would be more crushing to ISIS than people of all faiths living peacefully, happily side-by-side, as friends, neighbors, and families. People living in Syria and Iraq have their cities bombed by western armies. People in Lybia saw it earlier. Maybe they lost their friends or relatives in a war. Sorry but your naive words about peaceful living would sound like a bullshit to them.

> your naive words about peaceful living would sound like a bullshit to them

I understand the reasoning (but please dial back the tone), but I think it's wrong:

First, peace is often made by those same people who survive war and other horrors. The great modern institutions of international peace were built by the survivors of WWII (and WWI before it), people who saw far more and were far less naive than you or me. The foundations of the European Union were established by the same survivors, whose friends and relative were killed and brutalized by other EU members. Martin Luther King and his followers were brutalized by their white neighbors, yet they preached peace. Perhaps it's the people who have seen war who feel the greatest need for peace and understand what it takes.

Second, do you have any basis for speaking for the people in Syria and Iraq? Research? Do you live there?

Re: State of emergency in France

#200
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic deaths do not provide a useful scale here. They are typically not intentional and everyone understands that you take risks when you ride in an automobile. An act of terrorism, even if it causes no casualties, is cause for great concern because innocent civilians are being deliberately targeted.

They provide a completely useful scale when you are taking about society accepting a certain level of risk as the cost of having some value. As a society, we have decided that the deaths caused by cars are worth the mobility and convenience they provide. I personally think freedom and equality are worth at least as much as cars.

As a person part of this society you speak of, I disagree. Every life is sacred, and even as a full-on anarcho-capitalist I will agree that a ridiculous police-state is justified to defend the individuals within our society. I say that because that is the path we have chosen, by virtue of having a state. Otherwise, we're essentially rehashing the old "the good of the many outweighs the needs of the few".
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