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Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

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Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#51

Post by Mithaldu »

ab5tract wrote: post #44
Mithaldu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You imply, but fail to make any actual points or explanations.

I'm not going to bother convincing you that printf is not the highest form of string interpolation. Seems like you've got your bases covered pretty well.

I never said printf is the highest form, nor did i imply it. If you think i did imply that, and you consider it to be ridiculous, then it would behoove you to ask if i did mean to imply that or not; instead of assuming that your interpretation of my words is fact and i am being ridiculous.

I consider printf an acceptable form of string interpolation, nothing more.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#52

Post by mj41 »

peteretep wrote: post #10
rurban wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faster than Perl5 with Moose, but slower than similar languages with similar features. But there are not many with this impressive feature set.

Do you have a link to benchmarks you'd recommend that show it being faster than Perl5 with Moose?

I know about startup time: https://gist.github.com/mj41/6761c021135ae1cb17f9

BTW: Not Moose related - loop with native int: https://gist.github.com/mj41/20c70566564283151714

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#53

Post by mj41 »

epoch1970 wrote: post #45
mrxenu wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite get your point. MoarVM was created specifically for Perl 6, it is written in C and just works. JVM support in Rakudo is just added bonus and you are free to ignore it (like most users do). For 99% users "Perl 6" will mean just "Rakudo + MoarVM" which seems to be exactly what you're asking for. Note that MoarVM is nothing like Parrot. Parrot was a failed project which intended to bring universal VM for a…

I'd like to use Perl 6, but after 15 years of waiting there still isn't an implementation ready for production use. Rakudo and MoarVM clearly aren't what we, as potential Perl 6 developers and users, want. They look far too similar to the many other similar Perl 6 failures we've seen. How are we to trust that Rakudo won't go the way of Pugs, or that MoarVM won't go the way of Parrot, leaving us in a lurch? Even if th…

Yes "we" want. And "we" don't understand what is e.g. this about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Python_software#Python...

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#54

Post by mj41 »

drwoland wrote: post #11

I have to work with a legacy Perl codebase most weeks and I've been ignoring Perl 6 because upgrading our interpreter version is difficult for a bunch of reasons to boring to go into. I'd been naively holding out a hope that Perl 6 would improve things so I clicked on the Perl 6 for Perl 5 programmers link from perl6.org. They added code block interpolation to strings: #!/usr/bin/env perl6 my $number = 3; say( "{ $nu…

http://www.slideshare.net/Ovid/perl-6-for-mere-mortals

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#55

Post by raiph »

chrisseaton wrote: post #9
Mithaldu wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You overlook the addendum in the parent post.

I don't think so - it's still 'slower than similar languages with similar features', so not sure what difference it makes that there aren't many languages to compare against, if when we do compare it's still slower. I'd be interested to see what features there are that make the system slower in general, even when they aren't being used. I did a lot of work in my PhD on making odd features not affect the performance o…

If you click the green Start... button at this page: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/perl6?nick=chris... (change the nick if you want) you'll join the real time chat room (IRC) dedicated to developing Perl 6. (Here's today's log if you want to look first: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today

You can type 'hi', ask folk to read your above comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10565204 ), and then seen what unfolds when you chat for a few minutes. :)

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#56

Post by rurban »

sigzero wrote: post #29
rurban wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faster than Perl5 with Moose, but slower than similar languages with similar features. But there are not many with this impressive feature set.

And they really haven't done any optimizations for speed yet. Larry mentions that in his talk.

Excuse me? The whole 2 last years was mostly spent on MoarVM and it's optimizations. That's why we are having this release in the first place.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#57

Post by rurban »

chrisseaton wrote: post #7
rurban wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faster than Perl5 with Moose, but slower than similar languages with similar features. But there are not many with this impressive feature set.

Shame it's slower than existing work. We know pretty well how to optimise dynamic languages these days.

We != the perl community.

They still have no idea how a fast dynamic language should be designed. To their advantage python does neither. Ruby does know, but doesn't get along with to well. Only PHP got their act together with 7.0.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#58

Post by rurban »

peteretep wrote: post #10
rurban wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faster than Perl5 with Moose, but slower than similar languages with similar features. But there are not many with this impressive feature set.

Do you have a link to benchmarks you'd recommend that show it being faster than Perl5 with Moose?

http://perlformance.net/charts/ is the usual pointer, but it has no easy to show comparison.

There's also the perl6 specific benchmark https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench but I have no idea where they post their results to. It used to be a gist or IRC.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#59

Post by epoch1970 »

mj41 wrote: post #53
epoch1970 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to use Perl 6, but after 15 years of waiting there still isn't an implementation ready for production use. Rakudo and MoarVM clearly aren't what we, as potential Perl 6 developers and users, want. They look far too similar to the many other similar Perl 6 failures we've seen. How are we to trust that Rakudo won't go the way of Pugs, or that MoarVM won't go the way of Parrot, leaving us in a lurch? Even if th…

Yes "we" want. And "we" don't understand what is e.g. this about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Python_software#Python...

That's a perfect example of a much better approach, exactly like I was talking about earlier.

There's CPython, the main Python interpreter. It's quite traditional in architecture, and is written in a very portable subset of C.

It's the Python implementation that pretty much all Python developers and users happily and successfully use.

Then there are the experimental or niche Python implementations. They augment very specific and isolated use cases, instead of splintering and delaying the adoption of the language like the many failed partial Perl 6 implementations did.

It should be evident that the Python approach is better than the Perl approach. We've been able to use Python 3 in production for many years now, while Perl 6 still isn't usable.

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