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State of emergency in France

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Re: State of emergency in France

#91

Post by ilaksh »

SeanDav wrote: post #11
ilaksh wrote: post #3

This is a false-flag attack designed to motivate moving western operations in Syria from covert to overt. There are already Russians and Chinese in Syria so this could literally kick of WWIII if no one stops it. Unfortunately the media is so well controlled that the ubiquitous war propaganda is generally not questioned. As demonstrated by the instant downvote of my comment, media that isn't explicitly controlled is g…

> This is a false-flag attack designed to motivate moving western operations in Syria from covert to overt. There are already Russians and Chinese in Syria so this could literally kick of WWIII if no one stops it. Unfortunately the media is so well controlled that the ubiquitous war propaganda is generally not questioned. > As demonstrated by the instant downvote of my comment, media that isn't explicitly controlled…

Eyewitnesses report professional soldiers who were not apprehended. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/14/paris-attack-wi...

Re: State of emergency in France

#92

Post by ilaksh »

fasterthanlime wrote: post #24

Hey HN, I'm maintaining this gist. Feel free to propose better translations in the gist comments or right here, some of it could definitely use some improvement. If you have any other questions, I'll try to point you to reliable sources. Thanks for your interest in what happens to our country!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/14/paris-attack-wi...

Re: State of emergency in France

#93

Post by wyager »

junto wrote: post #25
mbrock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian measures targeted against large ethnic groups has been historically unsuccessful in Europe. It also grievously violates the core principles of an open and liberal society, which are presumably what we are supposed to be defending. Vehemently disagreeing with your opinion is a crucial necessity for anyone who stands for democracy and liberty.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

Do a risk analysis. Terror attacks (and most other high-profile murders) are tragic and scary, but in terms of death count, statistically insignificant.

Adopt absolute surveillance, ban all guns, etc etc and you might save a very small number of people each year, but you've paid a lot to do that.

Re: State of emergency in France

#94

Post by return0 »

scrollaway wrote: post #60
junto wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

You're asking for more ideas and this is something I've had to painstakingly talk to people about all day, so here's a shot at this. First of all, identify the problem. Why are there terrorist attacks? Saying "religious nuttery" achieves nothing. Nuttery always exists but is in majority not enough to push people to suicide bombings. Terrorist attacks exist because of political power and influence. They're efficient,…

Except these don't appear to be a political terrorist group, like the ones we have in Europe. This is jihad, blind violence, without targeting political figures. If you ask the bombers why they do it they 'll barely be able to answer beyond some religious nonsense. If you ask the ones who sent them to bomb, i bet you will find a mixture of vague anti-westernism , anti-semitism etc. Whoever is funding them does not have a world-changing plan other than general disorder. Even if ISIS had a UN-recognized state, they wouldn't be able to keep it functioning for a single day.

It's easy to be a terrorist nowadays, because it's hard to come up with solutions to fix the broken arab world. It probably doesn't take huge funding to do the things they do. Is there a viable political agenda behind them? If there was, arabs wouldn't be fleeing the area in droves.

Re: State of emergency in France

#95

Post by gnaritas »

junto wrote: post #25
mbrock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian measures targeted against large ethnic groups has been historically unsuccessful in Europe. It also grievously violates the core principles of an open and liberal society, which are presumably what we are supposed to be defending. Vehemently disagreeing with your opinion is a crucial necessity for anyone who stands for democracy and liberty.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

1 is the correct answer. Beyond that, you say "more" as if there are many. You have a better chance of being killed by lightening, stop promoting terror as a major fear, it is not.

Re: State of emergency in France

#96

Post by ryanwaggoner »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #51
junto wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

I strongly vote for #1. The attack, while tragic, was small-scale, and should not be treated as anything else as organized crime. Have the police find all responsible and bring them to justice. Anything else is basically doing what the terrorists want you to do - overreact. We should learn from the mistakes of the United States: two long, bloody and expensive wars, bombing third country and terrorizing fourth, mass s…

Actually, there were 42k traffic fatalities in the US in 2001, so 9/11 was equal to more like 3-4 weeks' worth :(

Re: State of emergency in France

#97

Post by rebootthesystem »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #51
junto wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

I strongly vote for #1. The attack, while tragic, was small-scale, and should not be treated as anything else as organized crime. Have the police find all responsible and bring them to justice. Anything else is basically doing what the terrorists want you to do - overreact. We should learn from the mistakes of the United States: two long, bloody and expensive wars, bombing third country and terrorizing fourth, mass s…

I would be interested to see what you would think of this, your statement, if you were holding the dismembered body of your father, mother, sib,ing or loved one in your arms. Dead.

Our free societies do not no Eed to change. Theirs do. And the solution is very simple. The problem is nobody has the balls and determination to do it.

There's a fundamental incompatibiliti between ideologies and behavior. Being poor, uneducated and without a job isn't a driver. Poor, uneducated and unemployed people in the wort ghetto's in western countries haven't historically translated their circumstances into "let's use automatic weapons to organize a multi-headed attack, kill ourselves and a bunch of people". No, there's only one ideology on the planet with a radicalized extreme minority that supports and promotes this kind of behavior.

To use the priot poster's analogy, let's stop blaming the cancer on the patient. We are not the problem. They are. And those who support them.

We sit idly while watching whole societies who behave like animals. Women in muslim countries walk around u der tents and are stoned to death. People are beheaded. Brutality and cave-men behaviour abounds. And we are supposed to respect it because it is religion? As a scientist this whole concept is revolting. Religion, a collective stone age dellusion that infects the minds of billions of people. It deserves no respect whatsoever. None. In that sense we are at fault.

We don't have to change. The delusional stone age brutal inhuman apes pushing around nonsense have to. The world needs to unite against them, not respect their bullshit religion and ideology.

Re: State of emergency in France

#98

Post by fabulist »

fasterthanlime wrote: post #70
spoiledtechie wrote: post #69

This should have been placed in politics.stackexchange.com. This isn't truly searchable by google or Bing and stack exchange is. Can someone please move this to the better alternative?

seems searchable enough: http://i.imgur.com/VwLGFxG.png

If anyone else thinks to check if it's only the top result in fasterthanlime's filter bubble, it is also the top result on Google through search.disconnect.me.

Re: State of emergency in France

#99

Post by mercurial »

vlehto wrote: post #68
scrollaway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking for more ideas and this is something I've had to painstakingly talk to people about all day, so here's a shot at this. First of all, identify the problem. Why are there terrorist attacks? Saying "religious nuttery" achieves nothing. Nuttery always exists but is in majority not enough to push people to suicide bombings. Terrorist attacks exist because of political power and influence. They're efficient,…

It's completely possible that the message sent here was not aimed to anybody living in France. It's also likely that certain large portion of French are not going to be satisfied unless something drastic is done. To them it's not about the problem, it is about feelings and identity. So this can't be solved entirely. Best thing to mitigate the problem would be a knee-jerk reaction that does least amount of damage. Bec…

> It's completely possible that the message sent here was not aimed to anybody living in France.

Why? France is bombing ISIS in Syria. That's also what the attackers were saying.

Re: State of emergency in France

#100

Post by mbrock »

makeitsuckless wrote: post #88
mbrock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian measures targeted against large ethnic groups has been historically unsuccessful in Europe. It also grievously violates the core principles of an open and liberal society, which are presumably what we are supposed to be defending. Vehemently disagreeing with your opinion is a crucial necessity for anyone who stands for democracy and liberty.

People who share a certain ideology aren't an "ethnic" group. We do exactly the same with nazis. Whether those measures are effective or desirable is up for debate, but the constant attempt to shut down that debate by playing the ethnic/race card is extremely counterproductive.

I regret the use of that word.
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