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State of emergency in France

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Re: State of emergency in France

#61

Post by vlehto »

StephenFalken wrote: post #44
junto wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need targeted surveillance and by that I mean something that many will vehemently disagree with. Before you down vote, please make the effort to read to the end and then down vote! If I was a doctor and my patient had cancer in his foot, then if try to treat the foot to get rid of the cancer. I would also pay particularly close attention to the leg connected to that foot, to make sure that the cancer did not sprea…

What I see is that no amount of monitoring of the more radicalized elements of society will alter the deep and profound civilizational changes that are taking place in Europe. This seems to be about the end of an era and the beginning of a whole new one. And nothing seems able to alter that course of History.

It seems impossible to predict what will happen.

But I don't think we will see anything that doesn't have some kind of historical precedent. The thing is that nation state is changing. It is fundamental construct of European democracy and way of life. The options seem to be EU getting more power or EU disintegrating and current nation states finding new form. Both in identity and borders. New migration period vs. formation of Austrian empire. Speed of change can of course vary.

Neither seems nice. I never guessed I'd find myself to be conservative.

Re: State of emergency in France

#62

Post by scrollaway »

kingmanaz wrote: post #58
junto wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

5. Close borders, transfer populations, and return to ethnostates. Use Israel and her 20' concrete border walls as a template.

That worked out great for Israel. /s

Re: State of emergency in France

#63

Post by vlehto »

mbrock wrote: post #22
junto wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need targeted surveillance and by that I mean something that many will vehemently disagree with. Before you down vote, please make the effort to read to the end and then down vote! If I was a doctor and my patient had cancer in his foot, then if try to treat the foot to get rid of the cancer. I would also pay particularly close attention to the leg connected to that foot, to make sure that the cancer did not sprea…

Draconian measures targeted against large ethnic groups has been historically unsuccessful in Europe. It also grievously violates the core principles of an open and liberal society, which are presumably what we are supposed to be defending. Vehemently disagreeing with your opinion is a crucial necessity for anyone who stands for democracy and liberty.

Your comment tells more about your identity than anything else. Not that there is nothing really wrong with that.

Democratic state could take any stance on the subject. Probably one that is easy to sell to people. This stuff comes interesting when we have democracy and liberty fighting against each other. Which do you choose?

Re: State of emergency in France

#64

Post by apostrophedave »

rorykoehler wrote: post #14
ilaksh wrote: post #3

This is a false-flag attack designed to motivate moving western operations in Syria from covert to overt. There are already Russians and Chinese in Syria so this could literally kick of WWIII if no one stops it. Unfortunately the media is so well controlled that the ubiquitous war propaganda is generally not questioned. As demonstrated by the instant downvote of my comment, media that isn't explicitly controlled is g…

Not everything is a false flag attack. People are down voting you because you provide zero substantive evidence to your claims. Personally I am against a violent response as I know it's futile yet I still believe this attack was legit ISIS. The problem was caused by war and won't be solved by more war. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein

i don't even understand how a false flag works in a situation like this. so 7 people people behind the false flag blew themselves up. it doesn't make sense. maybe they were promised a big christmas bonus

Re: State of emergency in France

#65

Post by ant6n »

CPLX wrote: post #54
junto wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

I always wonder why I never see this one on lists of choices: 5. Stop killing large numbers of Muslim people in the Middle East every week and see if that doesn't make them less likely to kill comparatively small numbers of people in Western cities every couple of years.

Aka

5. Make peace

But I forgot, that's just 'naïve'.

Re: State of emergency in France

#66

Post by sethherr »

CPLX wrote: post #54
junto wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

I always wonder why I never see this one on lists of choices: 5. Stop killing large numbers of Muslim people in the Middle East every week and see if that doesn't make them less likely to kill comparatively small numbers of people in Western cities every couple of years.

Agreed. Sort of funny this doesn't make the top of everyone's list.

Re: State of emergency in France

#67

Post by rsync »

junto wrote: post #25
mbrock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Draconian measures targeted against large ethnic groups has been historically unsuccessful in Europe. It also grievously violates the core principles of an open and liberal society, which are presumably what we are supposed to be defending. Vehemently disagreeing with your opinion is a crucial necessity for anyone who stands for democracy and liberty.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

"Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions."

Another option is to recolonize.

Failed (or failing) states like Syria and Egypt and Iraq become permanent vassal states and their populations are ruled in-place (as they were in the past).

I am not suggesting this course, but it should be included in this list, for completeness' sake.

Interestingly, it does solve the refugee crisis...

Re: State of emergency in France

#68

Post by vlehto »

scrollaway wrote: post #60
junto wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an alternative? All I see is naïve suggestions. As I see it we have several options: 1. We accept the fact that we will have more terror attacks in major European cities as a given. We such it up and we continue to live in a free and liberal society. 2. We accept total surveillance of our society. As the technology becomes more honed, terror attacks might be easier to prevent before they start. 3. We acce…

You're asking for more ideas and this is something I've had to painstakingly talk to people about all day, so here's a shot at this. First of all, identify the problem. Why are there terrorist attacks? Saying "religious nuttery" achieves nothing. Nuttery always exists but is in majority not enough to push people to suicide bombings. Terrorist attacks exist because of political power and influence. They're efficient,…

It's completely possible that the message sent here was not aimed to anybody living in France.

It's also likely that certain large portion of French are not going to be satisfied unless something drastic is done. To them it's not about the problem, it is about feelings and identity.

So this can't be solved entirely. Best thing to mitigate the problem would be a knee-jerk reaction that does least amount of damage. Because in democracy you will have that knee-jerk, sooner or later.

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