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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#201

Post by RockyMcNuts »

asasasasasas wrote: post #171
conradk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, this is not the first time that France has declared a state of emergency. It was declared in 1984 and 2005. And it was declared in Algeria in the 1950s and 1960s.

The OP meant that this is the first time since WWII that France has closed its borders, which is true. For those curious about 2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots#State_of_eme... Edit: I was wrong, the President said the borders were closed, but then clarified that they weren't.

I don't think they closed their borders. They invoked the Schengen protocol for re-instituting border controls. Under Schengen driving from France to Italy or Germany is like driving from Texas to Louisiana. But there is a clause allowing re-instituting border controls under certain conditions, including a national security emergency.

[edit: source France24; http://mashable.com/2015/11/13/france-border-airlines-flight... . Hollande did refer to 'fermeture des frontières' which is confusing https://twitter.com/Elysee/status/665314066106159104 ]

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#202

Post by 001sky »

conradk wrote: post #163
livatlantis wrote: post #100

In Paris right now. We are in shock. At both the scale and the extremely coordinated nature of the attacks on civilians at multiple locations. I work near rue Bichat and Le Petit Cambodge, a warm little restaurant in the 10e that my colleagues and I frequent, where people were tonight killed. The Bataclan is a well-known concert venue for metal bands, where I've seen several bands play live. Les Halles is at the cent…

Actually, this is not the first time that France has declared a state of emergency. It was declared in 1984 and 2005. And it was declared in Algeria in the 1950s and 1960s.

This is being pedantic, but it's the first enforced curfew since WWII...I think we can cut the GP a break, since the all this stuff is part of the state of emergency/emergency measures.

Peace to all.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#203

Post by cm2187 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #42
untog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do people think the refugees were running away from? Exactly these people.

I think a major problem is that even they can't know who among them - in the big groups of refugees making the journey - is an isis member or supporter, and even if they're not, there's no telling who is going to radicalise in the future. The attacks earlier this year in paris weren't done by someone that came from that area, iirc.

The French TV mentions that the terrorists were speaking French. And based on previous attacks it is more likely to be home grown terrorists. Syria is probably just a pretext, like a lot of European leftists in the 70s were using the Palestinian situation to justify their terrorist attacks.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#204

Post by jacquesm »

n0us wrote: post #187
rquantz wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism is usually a rational act. It is terrible, but it has political goals. This, for instance, may be aimed at ending the European involvement in Syria and their taking in refugees.

The data on terrorist attacks does not support this conclusion. Terrorism is rarely effective in its political goals and studies have concluded that it is not a rational or cost effective strategy.

That depends on what the goal is. My personal belief is that terrorist acts like these are a recruiting tool and a way to split society further enhancing opportunities to recruit and as such they can be effective if the counterparty reacts as they are supposed to do.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#205

Post by intopieces »

asasasasasas wrote: post #80
user_0001 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should be done? Bomb the hell out of the Syrians? Surely they have suffered enough. Iraq III? Maybe this time.... maybe.... Send the ground troops into Saudi? Quatar? Acknowledging that some of ISIS / Al-Qaeda gripes do have some merit, stop interfering in other countries affairs, stop propping up dictators because they are "our" dictator. Something else? Unfortunately for the Syrians, my money is on bomb the he…

What if we were to remove our dependence on foreign oil? Though fusion is a long way out, hypothetically, if we didn't have any reason to interfere and could just leave the Middle East to figure out its own problems, they wouldn't have a reason to see us as the enemy.

In 2014, net imports accounted for 27% of the petroleum consumed in the United States. 37% of that comes from Canada, followed by 13% from Saudi Arabia. [0]

Our dependence on foreign oil is no longer an excuse for our meddling in the Middle East.

[0] http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#207

Post by jacquesm »

charlesdm wrote: post #150
rquantz wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism is usually a rational act. It is terrible, but it has political goals. This, for instance, may be aimed at ending the European involvement in Syria and their taking in refugees.

> aimed at ending the European involvement in Syria I would be quite surprised if the EU decided against further intervention by this. If anything, I would expect them to intervene more.

They should do neither and simply carry on with the plans they had to date. Any reaction beyond police action to find out what the chain of command is and then targeting those individuals specifically is playing into their hands.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#208

Post by usaphp »

I don't understand how can you talk about ISIS, Nazis and Communists in the same sentence? Communism has nothing to do with violence compared to ISIS and Nazis...

Edit: Why downvotes? Idea of communism does not propose violence, Nazis and ISIS on the other hand do.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#209

Post by andrepd »

iMark wrote: post #41

I'm not entirely sure how I would define my guiding motivation in life, but I swear "do no harm" would be part of it. I despair at those who believe otherwise.

That's precisely the point. Bar psychopaths, nearly everyone thinks they are doing the right thing, even as they do horrors. These people are so deeply indoctrinated that they think they are ultimately doing good in the eyes of god.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#210

Post by jacquesm »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #206
leothekim wrote: post #12

Facebook has enabled their safety check feature: https://www.facebook.com/safetycheck/paris_terror_attacks/

What is this?

A way to let others know you're safe even if you can't get through to them personally.
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