Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly • Hacker News Board

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#21

Post by btiede » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:12 AM UTC

cxseven wrote: post #8

mberning wrote: post #5

I think about this often. Every day in rush hour traffic I have to take a number of calculated risks in order to get to work. This usually crops up when making a turn onto a highly congested road. I could easily see a self driving car being too conservative to find a gap and pull out, leading to a furious string of drivers behind it.

Yes, though once there are enough of them on the road, they could be made to help each other out. In fact, they could make it so that human drivers are at a disadvantage.

Agreed that enough of these self-driving cars on the road would put human drivers at a relative disadvantage if the self-driving cars are able to transmit and share data among themselves regarding dangerous road conditions that require extra precautions (e.g., icy, slick surfaces), accidents, traffic conditions or dangerous human drivers that are putting others at risk.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#22

Post by TeMPOraL » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:13 AM UTC

nshepperd wrote: post #20

ubernostrum wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety and posted speed limits are often not super compatible; the safest thing, in most road conditions, is to be driving relatively close to the speed of the surrounding traffic, even if that means exceeding the posted speed limit. (in other words, speed itself is not dangerous except in certain situations -- like sharp curves or wet/snowy/icy roads -- speed differential is dangerous)

You're basically saying that everyone should defect because everyone else does. Which may well be true for a single human driver, but is probably not how autonomous cars as a whole should be programmed. Nor does it support the claim that "speed itself is not dangerous". If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer (which we may actually be able to achieve once a sufficient number of law-abiding robot cars…

Exactly. If everyone followed the traffic rules instead of considering themselves smarter than traffic engineers, rules could then be adjusted to accomodate for optimal flow and safety. Alas, drivers know better and you can't optimize anything, because people will ignore the rules anyway.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#23

Post by deadbeef404 » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:17 AM UTC

lechuga wrote: post #15

these cars are going to be like beta max. quantum entanglement will make everyone who wasted time on them feel like an idiot. careers will be ruined.

Even if some technology is not successful in the end, it doesn't mean that there isn't value in it. This even is a good rule for most/all life experiences.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#24

Post by cmdrfred » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:20 AM UTC

lechuga wrote: post #15

these cars are going to be like beta max. quantum entanglement will make everyone who wasted time on them feel like an idiot. careers will be ruined.

I'll bite, how does sending information vast distances instantly drive a car?

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#25

Post by rubyfan » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:20 AM UTC

What's more interesting is they purposefully made it look like that. /ot

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#26

Post by wpietri » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:23 AM UTC

gcr wrote: post #7

RobotCaleb wrote: post #2

In autonomous mode do they pull over properly if A. getting pulled over and B. emergency vehicles are whirring about doing their thing?

I can't wait for a hacker to make a "Get-out-of-my-way" gun out of blinking lights that makes all the Google cars in front of her pull over. Maybe she could build it out of IR LEDs, so it's not obvious to humans. :)

Impersonating a police car is, unsurprisingly, already a crime:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_impersonation

States have similar laws for other emergency vehicles. E.g.: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/2...

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#27

Post by lechuga » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:23 AM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #24

lechuga wrote: post #15

these cars are going to be like beta max. quantum entanglement will make everyone who wasted time on them feel like an idiot. careers will be ruined.

I'll bite, how does sending information vast distances instantly drive a car?

we're information

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#28

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:26 AM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #11

This car was driving a bit too conservatively: However, this highlights my own experience trying to follow traffic laws. First, speeding: I figured out that the time saved speeding wasnt enough to actually help - theoretically, I could save 2 minutes if things went well. It is upsetting when people follow laws and safety instead of normal local social driving standards. So long as we are mixing drivers and driverless…

> This car was driving a bit too conservatively

No, it was driving 1 mph below the maximum that vehicles in the NEV classification are allowed to operate at, and on a road that NEVs are allowed to operate on. Which is why it wasn't ticketed; it was operating properly.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#29

Post by Dylan16807 » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:26 AM UTC

nshepperd wrote: post #20

ubernostrum wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety and posted speed limits are often not super compatible; the safest thing, in most road conditions, is to be driving relatively close to the speed of the surrounding traffic, even if that means exceeding the posted speed limit. (in other words, speed itself is not dangerous except in certain situations -- like sharp curves or wet/snowy/icy roads -- speed differential is dangerous)

You're basically saying that everyone should defect because everyone else does. Which may well be true for a single human driver, but is probably not how autonomous cars as a whole should be programmed. Nor does it support the claim that "speed itself is not dangerous". If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer (which we may actually be able to achieve once a sufficient number of law-abiding robot cars…

>If everyone were driving slower, everyone would be safer

But that's always true. All the way down to 10mph speed limits.

The job of speed limits is not maximum safety at the cost of everything else.

In practice, people can tell the design speed of a road and mostly follow that, no matter what the signs say. Defecting or not doesn't matter very much.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#30

Post by thrownaway2424 » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 6:32 AM UTC

ubernostrum wrote: post #14

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #11

This car was driving a bit too conservatively: However, this highlights my own experience trying to follow traffic laws. First, speeding: I figured out that the time saved speeding wasnt enough to actually help - theoretically, I could save 2 minutes if things went well. It is upsetting when people follow laws and safety instead of normal local social driving standards. So long as we are mixing drivers and driverless…

Safety and posted speed limits are often not super compatible; the safest thing, in most road conditions, is to be driving relatively close to the speed of the surrounding traffic, even if that means exceeding the posted speed limit. (in other words, speed itself is not dangerous except in certain situations -- like sharp curves or wet/snowy/icy roads -- speed differential is dangerous)

You meant the safest thing for people in cars. This is not the safest thing for pedestrians, thousands of whom die from being hit by cars in the USA every year.