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Why Obama did not stop NSA domestic surveillance

politico.com

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Re: Why Obama did not stop NSA domestic surveillance

#101

Post by TeMPOraL »

cubancigar11 wrote: post #98
bwindels wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if he starts the custom of not delivering upon his promises to donors, I could image that the next democratic candidate would have a very hard time finding donors. So I guess the pressure from the party would be very big not to go there.

Which means it will be up to the general populace to ensure the small guy wins. And Obama as a person doesn't believe that. Now that is the real question here. We as people do not think surveillance is bad. We clap for Batman and worry about Jack Bauer. That is the real insight here.

Jack Bauer maybe not, but I sure as hell would like to see S.H.I.E.L.D.

Re: Why Obama did not stop NSA domestic surveillance

#102

Post by irixusr »

JupiterMoon wrote: post #38
irixusr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've argued for it for a few years but most people are aghast at the suggestion...

And yet we decide who is guilty of major crimes by this method.

You're lucky if your case gets that far. Usually an often elected professional will twist your arm to plead guilty.

Re: Why Obama did not stop NSA domestic surveillance

#103

Post by irixusr »

harryh wrote: post #69
duncan_bayne wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen the same thing. I now firmly believe that most people understand that voting for representatives is a sham, but go along with it either for unstated reasons like tribalism and hero worship, or out of a deep seated misanthropy common to both the left and right wing.

This sort of nihilism is childish. You may not get everything you want from your government but jumping from that to "it's a sham" is absurd. If McCain had won in 2008 would the US have passed national health care reform?

We're not nihilists. We see a political process that is broken and throws some peanuts our way to keep the paroles happy. But if you're a potential donor like Lockheed Martin you bill the gov't for a flightless bird

The ACA is less than peanuts, since you have to buy the insurance yourself!

Re: Why Obama did not stop NSA domestic surveillance

#104

Post by cubancigar11 »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #78
cubancigar11 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very absurd argument, one I have heard several times in liberal circles. President of United States of America is the most powerful man in the world. He doesn't owe anyone anything. We elect him thinking he will do what he promised and the only retribution for him is that he will either be impeached or not get re-elected. That's it. That is democracy. Unless he had 'an offer he could not refuse', he is guil…

This is pretty much verbatim the "Green Lantern" theory of the presidency, fwiw. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/04/30...

Green Lantern theory says president should have sway over Congress. That is not the issue here.

Re: Why Obama did not stop NSA domestic surveillance

#105

Post by fweespeech »

coldtea wrote: post #99
fweespeech wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They existed as social cliques before they became official entities and were just as problematic at that point. Political parties didn't really become a bipolar construct we have today until ~1791.

Well, I think they've reached a level of depravity and institutionalization since that that was unknown in 1791.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts

Eh....not really. The problem these days is a disconnect from reality.

Re: Why Obama did not stop NSA domestic surveillance

#106

Post by rdancer »

Retra wrote: post #100
finnh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. rdancer's saying that the options people have to choose amongst/between are a consequence of how their votes are counted. Proportional representation tends toward a larger number of parties; first-past-the-post tends toward two. And "tends toward" can be read as "definitely leads to" in the case of fpp.

Just because the party can't win elections doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Think it through to the logical conclusion: What is a political party? How did it come to be what it is now? What happens when a political party loses popular support?

Re: Why Obama did not stop NSA domestic surveillance

#107

Post by knowaveragejoe »

cubancigar11 wrote: post #104
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty much verbatim the "Green Lantern" theory of the presidency, fwiw. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/04/30...

Green Lantern theory says president should have sway over Congress. That is not the issue here.

No, the Green Lantern theory is basically that the public believes the President can do anything and everything he wants, and therefore can follow up on all of their campaign promises.
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