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A new approach to China

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Re: A new approach to China

#381

Post by jacquesm »

Retric wrote: post #370
lhuang wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rate of change will obviously be grater from 1988-1998 than from 2000-2010 because prior to 1988 China was a completely closed society (especially prior to 1978) and just beginning to wake up from the cultural revolution, a highly chaotic period where progress LITERALLY stopped. That said, this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prc1952-2005gdp.gif appears to disproves your point. Not accounting for inflation, no…

I am not suggesting that you compare China to other Japan today rather how quickly they become industrialized. In 1965, Japan's nominal GDP was estimated at just over $91 billion. Fifteen years later, the nominal GDP had soared to a record $1.065 trillion by 1980. (11x growth in 15 years.) By comparison China's growth from 1989 to 2004 was ~9x (from your chart). At the time there was a lot of talk about Japan taking…

Japan had a bit of help from abroad after world war II, and like Germany for a long time did not have the financial burden of an army.

Re: A new approach to China

#382

Post by adrianwaj »

vorg wrote: post #380
adrianwaj wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would an email list that emails out a new proxy web address once one gets blocked to its subscribers work? -- there is some open source code that can be setup to run as a proxy app -- there's a main site that pings it to see when it goes down, or an email address that can be mailed if it goes down. -- once blocked, a new email goes out to users with the next proxy server web address that has already been setup and re…

It used to be in China you could get to blogspot easily through proxies. If a proxy server was blocked, you could then find another unblocked one easily enough. But since the Olympics, a new method of blocking blogspot seems to be in place. Even when the proxy is available, as soon as the blogspot content starts streaming, it's cut off. The post-Olympic firewall seems to be sensitive to the content when it's blogspot…

How about blogspot content via feedburner?

The firewall's probably looking for blogspot characteristics in the html coming through (ie the themes) -- but grabbing the same blog posts through feedburner (and rss in general) could circumvent this filter. Although, in such feeds, you wouldn't want any blogspot.com links.

Re: A new approach to China

#383

Post by realitygrill »

onoj wrote: post #256
enomar wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company like Google saying that it isn't safe to do business in China has to at least annoy them to some degree.

What is really interesting to me (i live in china) is that now that they have made this public it is impossible for them to continue doing business in china. Due to the social rules here if they wanted to save the situation in any way it should have been done privately. Given that they are clever people they know that announcing this will kill the china business. It is in essence a "slap", "we're out of here".

Ah yes, face. How is the news spreading in China?

Re: A new approach to China

#384

Post by rms »

realitygrill wrote: post #383
onoj wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is really interesting to me (i live in china) is that now that they have made this public it is impossible for them to continue doing business in china. Due to the social rules here if they wanted to save the situation in any way it should have been done privately. Given that they are clever people they know that announcing this will kill the china business. It is in essence a "slap", "we're out of here".

Ah yes, face. How is the news spreading in China?

Try http://twitter.com/search?q=%23googleCN and translate.google.com

Re: A new approach to China

#385

Post by realitygrill »

Radix wrote: post #89
JCThoughtscream wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They expected to do business, of course. It is, after all, a 1.32bn audience base. Quite glad they're opting to take the ethical route this time, though.

On top of a profitable business in China, Google now has some ability to leverage some change in China. At the least, other corporations and governments will reconsider their relationships or expectations of China. Google had no influence before they opened google.cn, and as netcan pointed out, it wouldn't have been very useful to show sites not viewable through the Great Firewall anyway. Business and an opportunity…

“The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make the rest of us wonder at the possibility that we might be missing something.”

Well, I wouldn't call Google's moves stupid, but this sure is a surprising outcome.

Re: A new approach to China

#386

Post by EricBurnett »

It is interesting to look at the monetary values of Google and Baidu in the two days since this was announced. It seems that after an initial ~2% dip, Google has returned to its pre-announcement value, while the value of Baidu has risen almost 20%. While one would expect the change in Baidu to be comparatively higher due to the relative difference in market caps (187B vs 16B), it still seems that on the stock market, this is currently being viewed as a net win for everyone. Interesting.

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&...

Re: A new approach to China

#387

Post by vithlani »

codexon wrote: post #205
andreyf wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is using this attack as an excuse to offset the PR disaster when Schmidt said the if you have something to hide maybe you shouldn't be doing it speech. That's just insane... do you really think the two are comprable? Google would lose more customers by withdrawing from China than people who know , much less care in the least, about that quote...

That's just insane... do you really think the two are comprable? 1. Google is not withdrawing from China. They are merely deciding not to implement additional censoring measures to curry additional favor with the government. 2. They have been losing market share to an inferior but government approved search engine Baidu. Why do you think Google China's Kai-fu Lee left after a few years in his highest position to make…

In regards to Kai-Fu Lee: his track record might be one of large corporations but now he spots an opportunity to capitalize on it and start something that will net him much more than working for a big corp ever could.

In China, business is like no other place. It is fully about connections and relationships and Lee is a unique individual -- he has connections from his days at all the major corps (Microsoft, Google) and finally he is using them for his benefit. If it takes off, he could be incredibly rich -- much more than the $10 million Google was (rumored) paying him. If not, he can always go back to any big corp: they will be falling all over themselves to have him.

Point being: you cannot correlate Lee's departure with a their projected performance.

Re: A new approach to China

#388

Post by morphir »

Don't be evil, right? ;) Instead of being the bully, pick on the bully, as that will bring google even more of the 'good guy' points that Ballmer so desperately needs.

If you think the Chinese gov. will give after for this kind of pressure, then I would say you are naive.

Re: A new approach to China

#389

Post by Radix »

realitygrill wrote: post #385
Radix wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of a profitable business in China, Google now has some ability to leverage some change in China. At the least, other corporations and governments will reconsider their relationships or expectations of China. Google had no influence before they opened google.cn, and as netcan pointed out, it wouldn't have been very useful to show sites not viewable through the Great Firewall anyway. Business and an opportunity…

“The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make the rest of us wonder at the possibility that we might be missing something.” Well, I wouldn't call Google's moves stupid, but this sure is a surprising outcome.

That is a perfect quote. Please tell me who it is attributed to. I tried to give you a point, but failed.

Re: A new approach to China

#390

Post by googleisgood »

liuliu wrote: post #88
there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

most chinese know nothing about the GFW! even now! most chinese know nothing about the true story of why google is going to leave! nobody could help chinese to build a better gov, and they just fool all of themselves. i wanna find a chance to get away from Beijing but...how?
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