Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The end of Haiti?

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 107 posts

Re: The end of Haiti?

#31

Post by timwiseman »

borism wrote: post #28
ars wrote: post #15

Historically disasters (and wars) have the opposite effect. In the short term it's terrible, but long term a disaster usually spurs rebuilding and economic activity that results in a better situation than what was there before.

Pretty ridiculous statement in my opinion. Life goes on, disaster or not. There's supposedly always better situation in the future, it is pretty dubious to claim that wars and cataclysms accelerate long term development.

There's supposedly always better situation in the future, it is pretty dubious to claim that wars and cataclysms accelerate long term development.

It depends on what you mean. Wars have historically accelerated technology development, at least in the short term.

If you mean development more generally, then no probably not. The civilian technology would eventually get developped, if more slowly without the major push of a war. In the process, people and resources are destroyed.

Re: The end of Haiti?

#32

Post by borism »

timwiseman wrote: post #31
borism wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty ridiculous statement in my opinion. Life goes on, disaster or not. There's supposedly always better situation in the future, it is pretty dubious to claim that wars and cataclysms accelerate long term development.

There's supposedly always better situation in the future, it is pretty dubious to claim that wars and cataclysms accelerate long term development. It depends on what you mean. Wars have historically accelerated technology development, at least in the short term. If you mean development more generally, then no probably not. The civilian technology would eventually get developped, if more slowly without the major push…

Of course I mean human development.

Tech development is self accelerating (with main constraint being human developers, who's numbers wars and catastrophes reduce, btw).

Conflicts provide some bump, but I would say it's pretty insignificant in the large scheme of things.

Re: The end of Haiti?

#33

Post by adharmad »

timwiseman wrote: post #27
adharmad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broken window fallacy

This does not apply in this case because it is bringing in resources from outside of the country. The broken window fallacy only applies in a relatively closed system. Of course, even if this DOES improve the economy (and I am not saying it will, just that it does not violate the broken window fallacy if it does) this was a horrible tragedy with an enormous deathtoll.

Agreed..it does not seem to be broken window fallacy....sloppy on my part.

Re: The end of Haiti?

#34

Post by sailormoon »

jfornear wrote: post #9
maxklein wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why OPEC countries? These are oil producing countries, but very few of them belong to the rich countries in the world. I think that perhaps the richest countries in the world should help rebuild the devastation of one of the poorest countries in the world.

I think he meant OECD countries.

OPEC and other resource-rich countries

I think he meant what he typed. There's plenty of OECD countries without significant natural resources.

Re: The end of Haiti?

#35

Post by chrischen »

timwiseman wrote: post #31
borism wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty ridiculous statement in my opinion. Life goes on, disaster or not. There's supposedly always better situation in the future, it is pretty dubious to claim that wars and cataclysms accelerate long term development.

There's supposedly always better situation in the future, it is pretty dubious to claim that wars and cataclysms accelerate long term development. It depends on what you mean. Wars have historically accelerated technology development, at least in the short term. If you mean development more generally, then no probably not. The civilian technology would eventually get developped, if more slowly without the major push…

Perhaps it's like accelerating your car. You gain more speed faster at the expense of efficiency.

Re: The end of Haiti?

#36

Post by mahmud »

kiba wrote: post #11
philwelch wrote: post #7

As far as failed states go, this could push Haiti from Haiti level to maybe even Somalia level. So I have to wonder what the repercussions of this could be. Somalia is a "safe" distance away from most of the rich and powerful countries--it's kind of a distant problem that Somalia has no government and even the piracy is kept to a sustainable level. Haiti's a lot closer to home. The US was pushed to action in Haiti in…

The Somali have customary laws which allow them to operate and grow their economy despite political chaos. However, it would seem to me that that Haitians have no common law system or a customary kind which would permit the growth of an informal economy.

That's just offensive to Haitians and downright wrong. Somali traditions are the #1 cause of our strife; tribalism. We don't have any "laws", neither written nor verbal. It's all tribal handshakes and the whims of whoever is in charge.

If you're referring to Islam, well, that hasn't saved us, or the Iraqis, or Afghanis .. come to think of it, maybe they're better off without a prominent political religious establishment there. Where there is a will for violence and anarchy, the dominant or pre-existing "laws" only become pretexts, never deterrents, or they become marginalized by "circumstances". You have never seen evil until you have seen religion under the Marshall law of the religious, curbed to the side temporarily, until the faithful reach a given objective, promising to resume their piety later when it's more convenient. (a bit meta here, but I am thinking more of Communism than Abrahimic faiths.)

Haiti is from the exact same Moor embryo that gave birth to the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Suriname, and the two Guyanas. Sure, they might not become a world-class economy any time soon, but nationhood is within their collective conscious. Never underestimate the will of a regional minority to rise up: francophone Haitians are in the middle of Spanish and English Caribbean. Give them sometime, they will be back up better and stronger.

Re: The end of Haiti?

#37

Post by jyothi »

mahmud wrote: post #36
kiba wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Somali have customary laws which allow them to operate and grow their economy despite political chaos. However, it would seem to me that that Haitians have no common law system or a customary kind which would permit the growth of an informal economy.

That's just offensive to Haitians and downright wrong. Somali traditions are the #1 cause of our strife; tribalism. We don't have any "laws", neither written nor verbal. It's all tribal handshakes and the whims of whoever is in charge. If you're referring to Islam, well, that hasn't saved us, or the Iraqis, or Afghanis .. come to think of it, maybe they're better off without a prominent political religious establishm…

Older systems built on trust and faith are very strong for community growth unlike what the organized economies & modern world claims. But I wonder how the system would behave under the severe destruction and distress. More so in the wake of external help pouring in and along with it bringing a false notion that Haiti need to rebuild in a certain way of their notion.

It might so happen that it would be torn apart between its own beliefs and what they are made to believe now more than ever.

Re: The end of Haiti?

#38

Post by DaniFong »

brettnak wrote: post #3

He just had to bring up climate change at the end. Great way to get everyone to miss the point of your post.

Isn't climate change (as a consequence of man-made deforestation) a large part of the problems that face Haiti today?

http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a000000/a002600/a002640/

Re: The end of Haiti?

#39

Post by ars »

borism wrote: post #32
timwiseman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's supposedly always better situation in the future, it is pretty dubious to claim that wars and cataclysms accelerate long term development. It depends on what you mean. Wars have historically accelerated technology development, at least in the short term. If you mean development more generally, then no probably not. The civilian technology would eventually get developped, if more slowly without the major push…

Of course I mean human development. Tech development is self accelerating (with main constraint being human developers, who's numbers wars and catastrophes reduce, btw). Conflicts provide some bump, but I would say it's pretty insignificant in the large scheme of things.

I didn't say development. I said economic activity.

Re: The end of Haiti?

#40

Post by sailormoon »

mahmud wrote: post #10

I am from Somalia, and I have witnessed its decay right to its downfall, including the three days during which the government dispersed and the central bank threw out its stash of local currency in large garbage bins. Haiti will not die. For one, the suffering has been universally afflicted on all Haitians. This will strengthen their bond more than anything. Even if warlords and gangs form their own fiefdoms througho…

An earthquake has no one to blame.

The event itself does not, it's true. But there certainly is someone to blame for the shoddy construction standards and grievous lack of preparation. The government is entirely accountable for these things.

Post reply on HN