I'm in my 40s and recently changed jobs. Every single company that I sent my resume to contacted me and I got through the phone screens on all but 1. That company sent a frontend developer just out of college to interview me, but I'm pure backend and didn't know too many frontend concepts, which flummoxed the interviewer. He basically had no idea how to interview me and gave up. Of the companies I went onsite to, hal…
Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
91–100 of 137 posts
Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. Ageism is especially easy to beat if you enter technologies early, but that is something you have to do at home: For most problems, suggesting the shiniest and newest is often a disservice to project deadlines. My latest example of this was learning Scala 5 years ago. Bet on something new, and then you get calls from all over the country to work on it, as most people are trying it, but few know what they are act…
>My latest example of this was learning Scala 5 years ago. Bet on something new, and then you get calls from all over the country to work on it, as most people are trying it, but few know what they are actually doing. As a young dev, I really want to learn how to do this. I'm a newcomer to the Scala party, but I can definitely see it becoming a huge player and there are so many reasons - Odersky has basically a team…
Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a 34 year old I always like hearing of people who actually manage to pull off a long career, it gives me hope. If you notice, a lot of these people in that article are in hardware design: electrical engineering, probably Verilog and the like. A lot of that work has successfully been outsourced which I think is the real cause of the decline. I suspect it didn't look like it was a particularly bad field to be in unt…
I'm 44. I got my first 'real developer' job at 40 :)
Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn’t the problem with COBOL not that learning COBOL is hard, but that you need so much domain knowledge about how the legacy code work?
The problem is mostly that it's boring as shit. I did a stint as a COBOL developer / systems admin for a bit out of college since I actually took COBOL classes in college (believe it or not this is what we studied in Information Systems I/II and I'm only 32 years old... nice college education there). The language itself is actually pretty cool. I enjoyed working in it and learning legacy stuff; it made me appreciate…
Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
^^ so this ^^ I was a tech recruiter for about a year (hate mail can be sent to dialogue@dessourds.com). the skills gap in america is so huge. there's so much demand for coding talent. anyone who has ever mastered a programming language is one Rails bootcamp away from getting a job. the older programmers who i saw struggling to get jobs had either a) gotten halfway rich and dropped out for 15 years or b) run their ow…
You said it yourself: > a programming language is one Rails bootcamp away It means that anyone can learn a programming language and become as 'competent' as the 55 years old. When you have a choice between a 22 year old and a 55 year old, equally competent, who of the two is a better bet ?
1. save time
2. save money
3. make money
No rational employer will look at a time saving, money saving, money making candidate and think "this person appears to be too good a match for my business needs".
Business value trumps ageism. Most the candidates I couldn't place typically didn't focus on trying to be profitable employees.
Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#96My uncle is a 65 year old COBOL programmer who has never been out of work.
A reminder that one way to keep your job security is to learn an important legacy tech really well. I have high hopes for Ruby on Rails -- it won't have the longevity of COBOL, but it's gonna be a nightmare of a legacy system ;-)
Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#97So I turned 55 years old last Monday, am employed as a senior software engineer for a startup in the voter education and civic engagement space, and I guess I'm qualified to comment on this. I read this same refrain over and over, and if I peer just a little bit between the lines I think I perceive a common pattern. A lot of these people are just not up to keeping up. Learning the next thing is a wearisome burden for…
Yeah, but should they be tossed aside for that? And should everybody be expected to keep up against fresh-out-of college people?
Maybe the speed of technology change can be a problem, especially if it starts putting out of a job more people than it employees, and no counter-measures (e.g. citizen's income, etc) are in place.
Not to mention that a lot of this "technology change" is just changes in fads, and there were perfectly good technologies 20 and 30 years ago that are even better than the latest BS du jour at what we do now. Just ask pjmlp!
Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#98Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#99So I turned 55 years old last Monday, am employed as a senior software engineer for a startup in the voter education and civic engagement space, and I guess I'm qualified to comment on this. I read this same refrain over and over, and if I peer just a little bit between the lines I think I perceive a common pattern. A lot of these people are just not up to keeping up. Learning the next thing is a wearisome burden for…
Great comment. Ride the wave, or watch it from the shore.
Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)
#100I'll try to explain it.
1. 20 years ago we were called "computer geeks". Young people fond of computers. This term does not apply anymore. Now everyone under 20 is a computer geek.
My daughter is 5. You know what 5-yo kids draw in school ? User interfaces. That's right. Checkboxes and buttons and sliders. They don't know what they are called, but they know how to use them. Every day they draw UIs and computers and they play with them at school, then they come home and interact with their tablets.
But that is the coming generation. Today, even if you've never seen a computer, you can catch on pretty quickly, because:
2. There is almost no entry barrier into the profession. After a month of tutorials and interview training you can get a job as a junior developer. In fact, there're so many learning opportunities right now that it doesn't seem fair. Anyone anywhere can learn to do what you do - and better, because he can learn from the best. And they can produce better code faster, because:
3. Services like Github have trivialised code sharing and reuse.
Each library solves some kind of problem. Before, it required days or even months of work and research. Now, it's just a 'pod install' or 'npm install' .
But it's good, right ? It's so much easier to develop software now... That's true, however, given the way things are evolving: 3.1. If it has any 'general-purpose' value, what you're working on right now is (or will soon be) obsolete, because someone else will release it as an open source lib. Good for everyone, not as good for all the programmers who would have been paid to develop their version of it.
Of course, we can ride the wave and try to keep current with all that's happening, right ? Well, turns out that's not so trivial anymore, because:
4. The field has become extremely wide and each area is an ocean in itself. Take 'the backend' : there are dozens of languages and frameworks, each of them being updated weekly. Or iOS Development. Machine learning ? Computer vision ? Sound engineering ? .... You did notice this didn't you ?
And if that isn't enough food for thought, then
5. AI will eat our lunch pretty soon. Maybe 5, maybe 10 years from now, there will be no 'programmers', because everyone will be a programmer. The tools, libraries and techniques will be sufficiently advanced for anyone to speak the requirements and design ideas and the AI will write all the underlying code.
AI combined with the 5 year olds of today who are already doing UX design.
Note that this wasn't the case 5-10 years ago. Before the iPhone, Github, Khan academy and Coding Bootcamps, the industry was a different beast. What the future holds is of course unknown, but the signs are that 'programming' is not a skill that will feed you for the rest of your life. Time to think about other things you're good ;).