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Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

nytimes.com

51–60 of 137 posts

Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

#51
post #22

The article has "stay on the cutting edge". Ha! The real leading edge is work that is at least "new, correct, and significant" and published in a peer-reviewed journal of original research in information technology , yes, and also powerful and valuable in practice. So, put on resume that have published in original mathematical statistics for detecting zero-day problems, in artificial intelligence, and in optimization…

>Back to my startup -- a few good days and I should be able to go live.

Read back on your posts a few pages, respectfully requesting to be put on your alpha list as well. My email address is on my profile here, for the time being.

Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legacy code buried in enterprises will always need supporting skills. With aging workforce that coded for mainframes, COBOL will pay more in near future IMO.

Isn’t the problem with COBOL not that learning COBOL is hard, but that you need so much domain knowledge about how the legacy code work?

The problem is mostly that it's boring as shit. I did a stint as a COBOL developer / systems admin for a bit out of college since I actually took COBOL classes in college (believe it or not this is what we studied in Information Systems I/II and I'm only 32 years old... nice college education there).

The language itself is actually pretty cool. I enjoyed working in it and learning legacy stuff; it made me appreciate what we do have now.

The work of maintenance on old systems is just annoying and boring. That's all you generally do. Few people are rolling out new things in COBOL even on older systems. It's just maintenance, debugging, and providing support for new features when the domain you are working on requires it.

Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

#53
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has gone the other way I would say no. Getting to the forefront in biotech is a 10 year full time journey. I have met a few developers who have tried to learn, but they have all struggled. Having said this don’t worry, if you think the job prospects are bad for old developers they are far worse for old scientists.

Biotech also pays a lot less. If you look at current jobs such as "bioinformatics programmer", the salaries are somewhere between a biologist and a software engineer even though it requires more knowledge than either. Remember, biologists start off at around 35-50k/yr on jr. level, while SEs start at ~100k+. Basically, it is better to be a junior level SE than a super senior bioinformatician.

Biomedical informatics is often better compensated and has more potential for venture opportunities, but it also often requires a CS PhD, an MD, an ability to code and entreprenurialness in the same person... That's at least a decade and a $300k+ investment.

Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

#54

Many great businesses were started by founders aged 50+. "The average and median age of U.S.-born tech founders was thirty-nine when they started their companies. Twice as many were older than fifty as were younger than twenty-five." Cites: https://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/older-entrepreneurs-... ; http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/research/2009/04/educatio...

I'm always do relieved to be reminded of this. I'm in my early thirties and an getting nervous about the window of opportunity passing.

Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

#55
Didn't think much about this until recently, and while gainfully employed, haven't been able to find a new interesting job this year despite actively looking. It's now November.

I'm an expert-level python, web, and javascript dev, with wide experience in admin and QA as well. In my 40s, up to date, and a much better developer than I was a decade ago.

Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

#56
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biotech also pays a lot less. If you look at current jobs such as "bioinformatics programmer", the salaries are somewhere between a biologist and a software engineer even though it requires more knowledge than either. Remember, biologists start off at around 35-50k/yr on jr. level, while SEs start at ~100k+. Basically, it is better to be a junior level SE than a super senior bioinformatician.

Biomedical informatics is often better compensated and has more potential for venture opportunities, but it also often requires a CS PhD, an MD, an ability to code and entreprenurialness in the same person... That's at least a decade and a $300k+ investment.

In think it might take you a tad longer than 10 years to get both a CS PhD and an MD.

Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

#57
post #22

The article has "stay on the cutting edge". Ha! The real leading edge is work that is at least "new, correct, and significant" and published in a peer-reviewed journal of original research in information technology , yes, and also powerful and valuable in practice. So, put on resume that have published in original mathematical statistics for detecting zero-day problems, in artificial intelligence, and in optimization…

> the role of sigma algebras

i.e. the definition of probability? yea, i expected ppl to be more interested in that, myself

otoh, be careful about minimizing other skill sets. doesn't take much more than basic arithmetic on the math side to understand the linux kernel, but the skills needed to be productive with such an engineering challenge aren't any kind of joke.

Re: Old Techies Never Die; They Just Can’t Get Hired as an Industry Moves On (2012)

#60
post #13
post #7

So I turned 55 years old last Monday, am employed as a senior software engineer for a startup in the voter education and civic engagement space, and I guess I'm qualified to comment on this. I read this same refrain over and over, and if I peer just a little bit between the lines I think I perceive a common pattern. A lot of these people are just not up to keeping up. Learning the next thing is a wearisome burden for…

As a 34 year old I always like hearing of people who actually manage to pull off a long career, it gives me hope. If you notice, a lot of these people in that article are in hardware design: electrical engineering, probably Verilog and the like. A lot of that work has successfully been outsourced which I think is the real cause of the decline. I suspect it didn't look like it was a particularly bad field to be in unt…

After 20 years doing a mix of embedded and application development, I spent 5 years teaching English. I went back into IT at the age of 45. My first interview was absolutely horrible (sorry about that if you are reading ;-) ). After that I was fine. I ended up getting a web development position without much prior experience in the area (just whatever I had hacked around on in my own time).

Of course with 20 years of development experience and 5 years of teaching experience, I had a lot of other things to sell as well. I certainly had no lack of interest and had positions to choose from. I did take a fairly healthy cut in salary, which seemed reasonable to me since the company that hired me was taking a risk. I was careful to pick a position that would work well for me and I did not take the highest offer. I definitely feel that the investment I made at the beginning was definitely worth it.

I think as an older person moving into a different area you have to be able to convince people that you will pick things up quickly and that your other attributes are worth it while they wait for your technical skills to come up to par. If you are careful to build the kinds of skills that will be valuable throughout your career, you will have relatively no problem in my experience. The people who have trouble are the ones that were just scraping by in their original positions, or people who had a laser focus on a particular skill set that is no longer valuable.

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