Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

news.sciencemag.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 84 posts

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#41

Post by Amorymeltzer »

cjhveal wrote: post #38
Amorymeltzer wrote: post #29

While it is easy to criticize any animal model study, especially when targeting cancer, we should be HIGHLY skeptical of any mouse study that uses vitamin C. Why? Mice synthesize their own vitamin C; humans do not (hence, it should properly be called ascorbic acid in mice, not vitamin c). The biological pathways involving this compound are very different between species, and deserve special consideration.

The dose makes the poison (or the cure). According to the article they gave daily injections containing 300 oranges worth of vitamin C (which google tells me is over 15 grams of vitamin C, an order of magnitude larger than the daily recommended dose for adult humans). Certainly being skeptical is still warranted, as OP is correct, there are significant differences in how this particular compound is handled species to…

No of course not. It does mean that this particular pathway is very different in the mouse model, and studies of vitamin C and mice should be taken with an extra grain of salt.

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#42

Post by mtgx »

cjhveal wrote: post #38
Amorymeltzer wrote: post #29

While it is easy to criticize any animal model study, especially when targeting cancer, we should be HIGHLY skeptical of any mouse study that uses vitamin C. Why? Mice synthesize their own vitamin C; humans do not (hence, it should properly be called ascorbic acid in mice, not vitamin c). The biological pathways involving this compound are very different between species, and deserve special consideration.

The dose makes the poison (or the cure). According to the article they gave daily injections containing 300 oranges worth of vitamin C (which google tells me is over 15 grams of vitamin C, an order of magnitude larger than the daily recommended dose for adult humans). Certainly being skeptical is still warranted, as OP is correct, there are significant differences in how this particular compound is handled species to…

Isn't it dangerous for a human to take that much in a day? What about for a month every day?

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#43

Post by cjhveal »

Amorymeltzer wrote: post #41
cjhveal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dose makes the poison (or the cure). According to the article they gave daily injections containing 300 oranges worth of vitamin C (which google tells me is over 15 grams of vitamin C, an order of magnitude larger than the daily recommended dose for adult humans). Certainly being skeptical is still warranted, as OP is correct, there are significant differences in how this particular compound is handled species to…

No of course not. It does mean that this particular pathway is very different in the mouse model, and studies of vitamin C and mice should be taken with an extra grain of salt.

In this regard, I think we agree very much! I simply wanted to point out that the specific example that they endogenously synthesize ascorbic acid wasn't a great reason for why this particular trial wouldn't be valid.

Be skeptical of any scientific claim made, especially around possible links between animal models and human clinical environment, and even more especially when the systems involved are not highly conserved cross species.

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#44

Post by cjhveal »

mtgx wrote: post #42
cjhveal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dose makes the poison (or the cure). According to the article they gave daily injections containing 300 oranges worth of vitamin C (which google tells me is over 15 grams of vitamin C, an order of magnitude larger than the daily recommended dose for adult humans). Certainly being skeptical is still warranted, as OP is correct, there are significant differences in how this particular compound is handled species to…

Isn't it dangerous for a human to take that much in a day? What about for a month every day?

Mega-dosing vitamin C is fairly common among alternative medicine practitioners. The medical community recommends an upper limit of 2g per day for adults due to mild laxative effects around that dosage. There's a paucity of trials that experiment with dosages above that level, so long term effects are mostly unknown.

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#45

Post by majkinetor »

Amorymeltzer wrote: post #29

While it is easy to criticize any animal model study, especially when targeting cancer, we should be HIGHLY skeptical of any mouse study that uses vitamin C. Why? Mice synthesize their own vitamin C; humans do not (hence, it should properly be called ascorbic acid in mice, not vitamin c). The biological pathways involving this compound are very different between species, and deserve special consideration.

There are few mice variants that do not produce vitamin C

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#46

Post by majkinetor »

mtgx wrote: post #42
cjhveal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dose makes the poison (or the cure). According to the article they gave daily injections containing 300 oranges worth of vitamin C (which google tells me is over 15 grams of vitamin C, an order of magnitude larger than the daily recommended dose for adult humans). Certainly being skeptical is still warranted, as OP is correct, there are significant differences in how this particular compound is handled species to…

Isn't it dangerous for a human to take that much in a day? What about for a month every day?

Not at all.

I experimented 5+ years with it and took on several occasions 100+g per day with regular input between 10-15g per day.

The only problem I had after 5 years is slight pain in esophagus immediately after taking C, but it passed after I switched to taking C on full stomach.

Note: you MUST use pure AA powder, nothing else. Timing of C is essential - you must do it right, or the effects are minimal (you basically have to simulate the liver ancestral production now disabled in humans).

Vitamin C is a miracle thing IMO, especially 4 kids. My daughter was taking 1g since age 1 (now has 5) and she has remarkable health (she is sick once or twice per year for 2-4 days without any complications with being in kindergarten with 30+ kids since age 1, although the non-vitamin-c factors are contributing to this picture quite a bit).

Vitamin C is the most effective virus killer in large doses if you time it right. It is poor antibiotic but you have many options in plant world for that.

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#47

Post by majkinetor »

Devid2014 wrote: post #4
sbierwagen wrote: post #2

On a side note, Linus Pauling was notorious for, late in life, after winning all his Nobels and other such prizes, pushing the idea that megadoses of Vitamin C would cure all cancers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling#Medical_research... https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/high-dose-vitamin-c-and... He died in 1994, of cancer.

There are really many types of chancer, and Vitamin C (if confirmed) seems to help only from some types of it. So that he died of cancer say absolutely nothing about Vitamin C.

Right, but almost all cancers depend on this pathway. GLUT receptor mega overexpression is a milestone in cancer evolution and vitamin C in its oxidized form competes with glucose which is in cancer cells almost exclusive energy source.

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#48

Post by majkinetor »

zappo2938 wrote: post #18
acd wrote: post #9

Is this why taking Vitamin C is good when you start to get a cold?

Vitamin C has been proven to not have an effect on viral colds either way.[1] Vitamin D on the other hand has been proven to be an immune system modulator.[2] Unlike Vitamin C, most people develop Vitamin D deficiency.[3] I strongly advice you and everybody based on these studies to get yearly blood work and talk to a doctor about taking 4000IU daily supplement of Vitamin D. Also massive doses of Vitamin D can have n…

Vitamin C doesn't cure common cold, but it sure as hell a) shortens it b) prevents complications (which may rise to be chronic).

What vitamin C does is prevent common cold, if taken the right way.

Pauling cure for common cold was never really tested. All papers on common cold used very small doses, almost all bellow 1g. Paulling advocated 1-2g every hour. I tried it and it works for me, but timing is crucial - it must be taken on first signs of disease, it wont do much if you delay that.

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#49

Post by mb_72 »

majkinetor wrote: post #46
mtgx wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it dangerous for a human to take that much in a day? What about for a month every day?

Not at all. I experimented 5+ years with it and took on several occasions 100+g per day with regular input between 10-15g per day. The only problem I had after 5 years is slight pain in esophagus immediately after taking C, but it passed after I switched to taking C on full stomach. Note: you MUST use pure AA powder, nothing else. Timing of C is essential - you must do it right, or the effects are minimal (you basica…

These are fairly typical anecdotal comments made by people pushing Vitamin C cures / treatment, often in conjunction with mention of 'miracles'. Oblig xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1217/

Re: Vitamin C kills tumor cells with hard-to-treat mutation in mice

#50

Post by majkinetor »

mb_72 wrote: post #49
majkinetor wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. I experimented 5+ years with it and took on several occasions 100+g per day with regular input between 10-15g per day. The only problem I had after 5 years is slight pain in esophagus immediately after taking C, but it passed after I switched to taking C on full stomach. Note: you MUST use pure AA powder, nothing else. Timing of C is essential - you must do it right, or the effects are minimal (you basica…

These are fairly typical anecdotal comments made by people pushing Vitamin C cures / treatment, often in conjunction with mention of 'miracles'. Oblig xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1217/

What can I say, it works for me and few more people I know.

But the argument you are giving is quite pointless - vitamin C has no side effects and it is dead cheap so there is no harm in trying it out for several months and deciding on your own if its good or not for you.

Post reply on HN