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My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

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Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#91

Post by Retra »

exelius wrote: post #61
ysilver wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America and North Korea have both been doing it successfully for years. Much is lost in this comparison. The American media landscape is pluralistic. Take for example our most popular news network: Fox News. Do they kowtow to the federal government? Russia + NK however, rely repressing dissent internally to retain legitimacy.

Russia's media is also nominally pluralistic. They have been careful to permit the existence of dissenting media -- if for no other reason than to have something to discredit. The propaganda outlets are much better funded and organized though, so they can largely drown out the voices pushing an agenda that differs from the party line. The Russian masses (just like the masses everywhere else, including the US) are lar…

That doesn't really refute the point though: American propaganda does lead to social instability, even if it's not at the level of boiling-over into revolution.

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#92

Post by theworstshill »

jqm wrote: post #48

I'm sure Russian trolls exist. I would guess pro-US trolls exist as well. That said, not everyone who disagrees with some aspects of US foreign policy is Russian troll. Some people in forums seem to get confused on this point. I've been accused of being a Russian troll simply because I don't support US attempts to overturn the current Syrian government and didn't care for US involvement in overturning the Ukrainian g…

Pretty much this. Having an independent opinion about Putin immediately gets you called a Putinbot nowadays. MSM and its followers demand conformity.

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#93

Post by kushti »

theworstshill wrote: post #86
sharetea wrote: post #40

Russian trolls are fascinating. The trolls' messages are low class, hateful, incoherent and always grammatically incorrect, yet they seem to be able to infiltrate discussions on cnn, bloomberg, reddit, zerohedge (which is an anti-western site anyways), and sometimes hacker news, and seem to have some influences amongst uninformed and angry netizens. Case in point, a random stock broker at my brokerage mentions to me…

Well you sure showed them. I wouldn't call anything related to Crimea an invasion either - were the forces stationed there resisting? They switched sides instantly. What about the population, did any insurgents materialize? Seems like what happened really WAS democracy - citizens of one country decided to join another one. Didn't seem to be a problem in Kosovo, but becomes a big problem when Putin is involved. Speaki…

Even more, my friend lived before(and living now) in Crimea are happy with "invasion" (???). But western people dont' interested in what people of Crimea think, the more important is what CNN says, what a shame.

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#94

Post by jonatanheyman »

kushti wrote: post #84
jonatanheyman wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting free speech, banning political opposition, arresting dissidents, persecuting people for their sexuality, invading neighbour sovereign states etc, etc. I don't know about you, but I think "totalitarian" draw a more correct picture, than "corruption level is high".

And again, without a single reference? Is it a joke?

The amount of information about the mentioned issues, available on the web is enormous. Anyone who want to read up on it can just use a search engine. I believe most users should be able to evaluate the credibility of the sources found themselves and I don't think me cherry-picking a few articles would add much credibility to the comment.

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#95

Post by integraton »

benten10 wrote: post #19
dimitar wrote: post #3

The whole idea of the state-sponsored troll army is to destroy the Internet as a reliable means of discussion and to devalue it as a venue for journalism, especially independent journalism. Russia would much prefer that there were only liars and cheerleaders, that anyone disagreeing with the Kremlin sinks to their level or picks a 'side'. I think that it shows that their bosses don't really understand real Internet d…

You overestimate people's ability not to be offended, and underestimate the diversity in people's actual beliefs. For example: When someone on HN said over the weekend "I don't see anything inherently wrong with colonialism. Remember that scene from Monty Python -- What have the Romans done for us? A lot of good has come out of colonialism", I was almost certain (almost) it was trolling. Once I saw others agreeing, I…

Your comment is interesting since it contains a lot of political extremism and insults toward people who hold different viewpoints, while also advocating censorship.

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#96

Post by alendit »

jonatanheyman wrote: post #78
johnnydoebk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption level is high in Russia, you're right here. But totalitarian government? I'm afraid, you drink too much someone else's Kool-aid. And as for the GDP fall. Could you please provide some references? Because mine show that it's not even close to what you've written [1] [2]. I'd like to read more about generations in the army and the aged military, too. Lack of any references but very big conclusions. That's ex…

Limiting free speech, banning political opposition, arresting dissidents, persecuting people for their sexuality, invading neighbour sovereign states etc, etc. I don't know about you, but I think "totalitarian" draw a more correct picture, than "corruption level is high".

> Limiting free speech

This accusation is very vague and it could mean anything. It's surely more limited than, say, in Sweden. It way less limited than in Saudi Arabia.

> banning political opposition

Russian parliament consists of 4 parties, 3 of those are oppositional. I'm sure there is a number of banned NGOs, but totalitarian countries usually don't have this kind of political plurality.

> arresting dissidents

Notice they don't arrest people for being a political dissident? Khodorkovsky was brought up on tax evasion charges (which he undoubtedly committed). Pussy Riot was charged with hooliganism (which they undoubtedly committed). Were the trials politically motivated? Sure! Is it unique to totalitarian states that people who oppose the establishment come under higher scrutiny? Please...

> persecuting people for their sexuality

Now we are venturing into the cool-aid area. Modern Russia never prosecuted anyone for their sexuality. Homosexuality means attraction to the same sex and people are free to act on their attraction in Russia. There are a number of openly gay public figures. Russia has laws protecting LGBT minorities from discrimination. I would venture further - Russian government's policy right now is as progressive on LGBT rights as possible in Russia. The populace is hugely homophobic, ranging from 'being gay is a disease' to 'gay must be stoned'. It's the same in most of the former Soviet republics - even in the Lithuania over 80% of people consider homosexuality a perversion [1].

And by misrepresenting the fact about the state of the LGBT community in Russia the Western media only make Putin's life easier, since he can present it as a 'them-versus-us' issue internally. Compare [2]

> invading neighbour sovereign states

Is the emphasis here on 'neighbour'? Because if invading other countries is a sign of totalitarianism than the list of totalitarian countries will have some very surprising names on it.

> I don't know about you, but I think "totalitarian" draw a more correct picture

Which is your good right. I just don't see enough facts to support your opinion that Russia is a ' state [which] holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible.' [3]

[1] http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/apklausa-daugiau-ne... (use google translate)

[2] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/05/russia-...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#97

Post by ptaipale »

kushti wrote: post #84
jonatanheyman wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting free speech, banning political opposition, arresting dissidents, persecuting people for their sexuality, invading neighbour sovereign states etc, etc. I don't know about you, but I think "totalitarian" draw a more correct picture, than "corruption level is high".

And again, without a single reference? Is it a joke?

General discussion typically does not try to list references for things that are obvious. But of course it can be done.

Limiting free speech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia "the Russian government exerts control over civil society through selective implementation of the law, restriction and censure." "In 2013 Russia ranked 148th out of 179 countries in the Press Freedom Index from Reporters Without Borders."

Banning political opposition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Party_(Russia) "On 28 April 2015 the party was deprived of registration."

Arresting dissidents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny

Persecuting people for their sexuality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_LGBT_propaganda_law

Invading neighbour sovereign states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Russian_milita...

An we could add to the list. But it would be pointless, wouldn't it? Since we know that the first step is "you don't have any references", and the next step is "here's some mud flying at you and your references".

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#98

Post by reitanqild »

Kristine1975 wrote: post #56
alendit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right now the Kremlin is likely undergoing an intense debate on how to spin the downing of the recent Russian flight as something other than a reaction to the Russian air war in Syria. They can always claim that ISIS hates Russia's freedom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PKRHgmHzK0 .

Sorry, but "they hate our freedom" has been patented by the US government for their propaganda. Also isn't Syria one of the bad guys right now, so waging war against them is a-ok? I'm getting a bit confused sometimes whether we're at war with Eurasia or Eastasia.

> Also isn't Syria one of the bad guys right now, so waging war against them is a-ok?

Not in Russia it seems.

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#99

Post by orf »

FilterSweep wrote: post #69
orf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, this "harassment" is to be expected from boots-on-the-ground paid Russian trolls. Complaining about it is poking a bear in the nose with a stick and not expecting it to react. Therefore it's her fault? That's like saying "if you complain about sexual harrasment and get fired it's your fault, you shouldn't have poked the bear". I hope you see how ignorant that is.

You're equating professional harassment regarding an external subject to sexual harassment within an internal workplace. I don't think this is appropriate here, in the least bit. Not only is it distasteful, but it also was a poorly posited example that failed to even make the same connection to "bear poking"

> that failed to even make the same connection to "bear poking"

Office worker X wears an attractive dress to work one day. It's within her right to do so and is not breaking any rules. Officer worker Y comes over, drops his trousers and says "Want to poke my bear?".

Journalist X makes a statement about Russia. It's within her right to do so and not breaking any rules. Russian Shill Y comes over and says "Fuck you, here's a torrent of abuse for many months".

In both cases the bear got provoked by something the subject did, by making a statement with her clothes or her words. But you're saying in both cases it's her fault that the bear got provoked and she shouldn't do it?

Re: My Year as a Pro-Russia Troll Magnet

#100

Post by snowwrestler »

crdoconnor wrote: post #41
ysilver wrote: post #28

Back to the USSR. East-West relations are reverting to the Cold War days. From saber-rattling, proxy wars to propaganda campaigns, few will dispute that there has been a back-slide in recent years. But here is what I find amazing: we have already seen this movie and we know what forces are at play and what the likely outcome is. Namely, it is very difficult to maintain legitimacy as a government through a propaganda…

>But here is what I find amazing: we have already seen this movie and we know what forces are at play and what the likely outcome is. Namely, it is very difficult to maintain legitimacy as a government through a propaganda campaign. It is a highly unstable equilibrium. America and North Korea have both been doing it successfully for years. You either need very sophisticated propaganda (America) or a very strict contr…

Leaders are replaced all the time in the U.S. In fact, we have a system of government specifically designed to faciliate the regular replacement of leaders.
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