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We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

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Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#41

Post by kitd »

> We do tend to have this unexamined assumption that the individual is a huge fucking deal. Because it feels to use that we are. Because our neurological equipment seems to demonstrate to each of us that we are quite obviously the exact center of the universe.

Taking time to practise stepping outside one's own POV and attempting to measure your life objectively against whatever scale of value you hold is one of the most worthwhile and fulfilling disciplines I know.

It is exactly what 'prayer' is, though that word comes with the baggage of traditional religion which may be offputting.

But in reality you don't have to be religious to pray.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#42

Post by cryoshon »

drumdance wrote: post #37
ThomPete wrote: post #35

One of my biggest eureka-moments I had when I moved to the states from Denmark — wasn't what I learned about the US — but what I learned about Denmark. I suddenly saw things about my own culture clearly when I wasn't surrounded by confirmation bias of specific ways of looking at things. One of the most eye-opening experiences for me; If you wan't to understand something you need to understand it through things that a…

I think international travel should be mandatory, especially for US citizens. The longest I've stayed anywhere overseas is a month, but even a few days in another country can be eye-opening.

Agreed. Traveling internationally has been an eye opener for me, although it also confirmed many of my deeply held biases about my own country.

Americans will be shocked to learn that people in other countries don't walk around thinking about America or wondering what "the Americans" are going to do about stuff.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#43

Post by gglitch »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #34
vlehto wrote: post #22

Some of my friends report how eating certain mushrooms made the super creative. I have asked what they created? Nothing. The reason why they think they we're creative is because they felt creative. This article made similar thing for me with respect to learning. I feel like I learned something. But I really don't remember what.

I actually buy that psychedelics make people more creative. People fall into more predictable mental ruts than random exploration would, so anything that kicks the brain out of the patterns it wants to match to is going to help.

Agree. "Creative," may be a misleading term if interpreted literally and nothing tangible has been created, but colloquially, I think we use the term more to refer to patterns of thought and behavior that derail the self or others from their normal patterns.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#44

Post by noja »

kitd wrote: post #41

> We do tend to have this unexamined assumption that the individual is a huge fucking deal. Because it feels to use that we are. Because our neurological equipment seems to demonstrate to each of us that we are quite obviously the exact center of the universe. Taking time to practise stepping outside one's own POV and attempting to measure your life objectively against whatever scale of value you hold is one of the m…

> It is exactly what 'prayer' is

Huh? Using what definition?

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#45

Post by DarkTree »

ThomPete wrote: post #35

One of my biggest eureka-moments I had when I moved to the states from Denmark — wasn't what I learned about the US — but what I learned about Denmark. I suddenly saw things about my own culture clearly when I wasn't surrounded by confirmation bias of specific ways of looking at things. One of the most eye-opening experiences for me; If you wan't to understand something you need to understand it through things that a…

I had the same revelation when I studied in the Netherlands for 4 months. You think you are going there to learn only about a new country and its people, and you come back having learned equally as much about your own.

I also happened to take a class on the Second Industrial Revolution, which compared Germany, Great Britain and the U.S. and in a class of mostly German students, it was quite an eye-opener and forced me to adjust my perspective.

Travel is invaluable. Well worth whatever debt I accumulated.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#46

Post by mfoy_ »

kitd wrote: post #41

> We do tend to have this unexamined assumption that the individual is a huge fucking deal. Because it feels to use that we are. Because our neurological equipment seems to demonstrate to each of us that we are quite obviously the exact center of the universe. Taking time to practise stepping outside one's own POV and attempting to measure your life objectively against whatever scale of value you hold is one of the m…

Perhaps you confused "prayer" with "meditation" or something else?

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#47

Post by refurb »

cryoshon wrote: post #42
drumdance wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think international travel should be mandatory, especially for US citizens. The longest I've stayed anywhere overseas is a month, but even a few days in another country can be eye-opening.

Agreed. Traveling internationally has been an eye opener for me, although it also confirmed many of my deeply held biases about my own country. Americans will be shocked to learn that people in other countries don't walk around thinking about America or wondering what "the Americans" are going to do about stuff.

Americans will be shocked to learn that people in other countries don't walk around thinking about America or wondering what "the Americans" are going to do about stuff.

I don't know any Americans who do that.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#48

Post by protomyth »

drumdance wrote: post #37
ThomPete wrote: post #35

One of my biggest eureka-moments I had when I moved to the states from Denmark — wasn't what I learned about the US — but what I learned about Denmark. I suddenly saw things about my own culture clearly when I wasn't surrounded by confirmation bias of specific ways of looking at things. One of the most eye-opening experiences for me; If you wan't to understand something you need to understand it through things that a…

I think international travel should be mandatory, especially for US citizens. The longest I've stayed anywhere overseas is a month, but even a few days in another country can be eye-opening.

You don't really need to go overseas as a US citizen as a trip to a different region will do exactly the same thing. Its pretty amazing what a person from NYC can learn about themselves when they end up on a reservation in ND for a couple of months. Very enlightening for those students.

I had my eureka moment when I took a job in urban MN after working on the reservation for 5 years (and growing up there before that). They announced a noon meeting and I went and they didn't serve lunch. Everyone brought a bag lunch (expect me). I was pretty ticked off and insulted[1]. I was mad the rest of the day. It took a call home and the "your not on the rez anymore" speech to open my eyes to what we hold as truths spawned from culture.

1) have a lunch meeting on a reservation on the upper great plains and not serve lunch at your peril - never mind not accepting a gift as you leave - federal rules and local traditions can conflict a bit

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#49

Post by rogeryu »

ThomPete wrote: post #35

One of my biggest eureka-moments I had when I moved to the states from Denmark — wasn't what I learned about the US — but what I learned about Denmark. I suddenly saw things about my own culture clearly when I wasn't surrounded by confirmation bias of specific ways of looking at things. One of the most eye-opening experiences for me; If you wan't to understand something you need to understand it through things that a…

I had this moment when I moved out of my parents house to study. I still remember the moment clearly when I discovered that (some of) my thoughts were not strange, just different. I always thought that it was my fault, even though I never could ignore them.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#50

Post by rogeryu »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #34
vlehto wrote: post #22

Some of my friends report how eating certain mushrooms made the super creative. I have asked what they created? Nothing. The reason why they think they we're creative is because they felt creative. This article made similar thing for me with respect to learning. I feel like I learned something. But I really don't remember what.

I actually buy that psychedelics make people more creative. People fall into more predictable mental ruts than random exploration would, so anything that kicks the brain out of the patterns it wants to match to is going to help.

I've heard house mates talking when high on cannabis - while I was not high. They had incredible ideas and were really enthusiastic. The only problem was that it was impossible to make any sense of the ideas they expressed.
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