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StarCraft: The past, present and future

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Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#31
post #14
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, the game works great on Windows. I can't imagine playing games like SC2 or CSGO on OSX. It's just not economical for Blizzard to do an OSX port. The game has been kinda dead for a while now, because it's so unaccessible to the general population. Games like Dota and League of Legends have taken the place of Starcraft 2 because it's pretty accessible to newbies yet offers a very high skill ceiling for those who w…

Blizzard pretty good recent track record with supporting OS X. World of Warcraft, StarCraft 2, Hearthstone, and Heroes of the Storm all run under OS X. Unfortunately, Blizzard's latest game, Overwatch, will not be coming to OS X. That question happened to be the first one asked by a member of the audience in the first Overwatch panel on Friday, November 6 at the BlizzCon 2015.

I wonder why not - they've always been pretty aggressive about Mac support, as you observed.

Maybe the overhead required for developing a new FPS engine (which, AFAIK, Blizzard's never done in-house before, even SC:Ghost was another developer) was too much for them to have OS X support in the initial timetable.

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#32

Interaction design is a craft, and gaming is the subcategory of interaction design that most often ventures into the world of art. But the thing that most constrains the artform is this "little brother" mindset. Instead of waiting for society to understand and comprehend the medium, those who craft video games work to make their medium more like film or novels or music or other "high" artforms. So I get a little twit…

Interaction accomplishes the browsing of information, just like scanning a picture or looking through a card catalog.

And when folks make broad appeals to interactivity, they are saying that somehow the interaction of the gamepad is fundamentally different from turning the page of a book.

But that isn't what we are thinking about as we get immersed in a game experience - we soon forget that the controls are there.

It is the simulation that people turn to next - a believable world that responds to your actions in complex ways.

But again, there is a problem - more than one problem. If the simulation is as chaotic as reality, people lose track of the hooks that kept them involved - they no longer have the ability to make extensive plans or strategies, neither are there any puzzles to solve cleanly and gracefully. And if the simulation adds detail without purpose, it dilutes any designed intent. The small differences in situations are vastly overwhelmed by a few key elements that control the real outcomes - leading to a noisy experience. Only a few kinds of games can survive the extensive sim treatment - the kinds of games that you play with the intent of telling a story about later. Put to this purpose the details rise back to the surface as important story elements.

If not those two things, what is it that is grabbing you about Starcraft? Here I would pause to consider what unifies chess, science, and literature. It is the conversation of being posed problems and arguing your case and proving your points, given a factual situation involving arbitrary rules. There are different interactions involved in each case, different skills and levels of execution needed. But it is this thing of being posed interesting problems with variety, one after another, that drives both the best liked games and stories. They don't have to be hard or deep problems - "who will the main character hook up with" drives countless stories and "which team will get the most points" drives most sports - but they give you something to chew on.

And so a writing focus is, in this light, an equal partner to a mechanics focus - either could be taking the lead role. The writing could pose a question that the player solves mechanically - that's a very typical model. Or the writing could usher you in one direction, only to reach a mechanical contradiction, leading the player to a critique of the system, a desire to escape the rules.

What we don't ask people to do in games is to design, from scratch, large parts of the experience. That takes us out of the realm of immersion, browsing, and strategizing, and into "hard" creativity where an intentional vision drives large bodies of work.

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#33
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, the game works great on Windows. I can't imagine playing games like SC2 or CSGO on OSX. It's just not economical for Blizzard to do an OSX port. The game has been kinda dead for a while now, because it's so unaccessible to the general population. Games like Dota and League of Legends have taken the place of Starcraft 2 because it's pretty accessible to newbies yet offers a very high skill ceiling for those who w…

i played SC2 and CSGO on OSX just fine for years. when i switched to better graphics hardware on Windows my CS rank jumped from MG2 to LEM, but i can't attribute this to the OS at all. also, having only one hero to control only gives you the illusion that Dota/LoL is easier. it takes just as much effort to be "remotely good" at Dota as SC2. this is why most people who play casually are trash. MOBAs have so many playe…

I agree with you. But realize that having "players who don't even understand enough about the game to recognize they are bad" makes those players happy with little effort. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#34

Interaction design is a craft, and gaming is the subcategory of interaction design that most often ventures into the world of art. But the thing that most constrains the artform is this "little brother" mindset. Instead of waiting for society to understand and comprehend the medium, those who craft video games work to make their medium more like film or novels or music or other "high" artforms. So I get a little twit…

And maybe the writing is what gets "society to understand and comprehend the medium." If you ask any adult who does not play video games what they think of Mario, they are more likely to say "oh the cute chubby plumber" than they are to say "I heard that game is well-designed."

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#35
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, the game works great on Windows. I can't imagine playing games like SC2 or CSGO on OSX. It's just not economical for Blizzard to do an OSX port. The game has been kinda dead for a while now, because it's so unaccessible to the general population. Games like Dota and League of Legends have taken the place of Starcraft 2 because it's pretty accessible to newbies yet offers a very high skill ceiling for those who w…

i played SC2 and CSGO on OSX just fine for years. when i switched to better graphics hardware on Windows my CS rank jumped from MG2 to LEM, but i can't attribute this to the OS at all. also, having only one hero to control only gives you the illusion that Dota/LoL is easier. it takes just as much effort to be "remotely good" at Dota as SC2. this is why most people who play casually are trash. MOBAs have so many playe…

> at least in SC it's obvious.

I watched Life in the World Championships on the weekend do like 300APM constantly.

I'd honestly be going GG at about 1 minute in I think.

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#36
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet I shy away from Dota, LoL, etc, because it wants me to learn the stats of a hundred heroes before I can play it somewhat competitively.

Starcraft is really heavy on twitch skills and multi-tasking, while Dota rewards knowledge. Obviously you still need strong twitch/multitask skills to be really great at Dota, but you can go a surprising distance without them. I found that when picking up Dota I started to have fun and feel vaguely competent quicker - despite the fact that I didn't play for very long or get very good. I was aware that to progress far…

I am a mid-gold elo LoL player and was a Diamond SC2 player when Diamond was the highest league. In my experience, MOBA's are winning because controlling one unit doesn't give you the same stress level that comes with controlling an army, setting control groups, preventing supply caps, scouting, considering what you need to build next to counter your opponent, and taking steps to stop every cheese strategy that your opponent might try. Even if you've executed at a high level, you can still lose in the blink of an eye if you fail to react. I stopped SC2 because it left me with an uneasy feeling once I got near the top. LoL, on the other hand, barely requires the kind of APM that SC2 does at a high level. It's more about knowing the correct items to build and when you can win a fight. Sure, you still need mechanics to get high creep score and execute in team fights, but you can play champions where that reliance is mitigated.

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#37
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blizzard pretty good recent track record with supporting OS X. World of Warcraft, StarCraft 2, Hearthstone, and Heroes of the Storm all run under OS X. Unfortunately, Blizzard's latest game, Overwatch, will not be coming to OS X. That question happened to be the first one asked by a member of the audience in the first Overwatch panel on Friday, November 6 at the BlizzCon 2015.

I wonder why not - they've always been pretty aggressive about Mac support, as you observed. Maybe the overhead required for developing a new FPS engine (which, AFAIK, Blizzard's never done in-house before, even SC:Ghost was another developer) was too much for them to have OS X support in the initial timetable.

Honestly? They've been posting a lot more Mac developer jobs lately and their Mac client's quality for WOW has been degrading consistently over the last few major versions.

I'd say their devs familiar in that space are getting poached/spread to other teams and its not feasible to support OS X on team 4 at the moment.

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#38

Interaction design is a craft, and gaming is the subcategory of interaction design that most often ventures into the world of art. But the thing that most constrains the artform is this "little brother" mindset. Instead of waiting for society to understand and comprehend the medium, those who craft video games work to make their medium more like film or novels or music or other "high" artforms. So I get a little twit…

I partially disagree with you. Some of my most memorable moments are the stories of various games. Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII, Zelda: A Link to the Past and so on all, with their great gameplay for the time, above average to great story lines that captured its audience.

Now on to games like StarCraft, DoDA, Quake 3, and Counter-Strike were all hailed as some of the greats, not because of the story like you pointed out, but because of the game mechanics that allowed them to be used as a medium for competitive gaming. And, as a former competitive gamer, I can attest to the addictive nature of gaming that causes your heart to race and one's palms to sweat while trying to clinch a victory.

For this, I believe you can't say stories don't matter. I believe there are games that are better suited for repetitive gameplay and those that rely on a great story and subpar game mechanics to reel in or captivate the player(s).

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#39
post #7

Are there any scientific resources about how almost every mainstream success is based on a rather "direct" copy of something that already existed? Like here with WarCraft/StarCraft and Warhammer/Warhammer 40,000.

This is not scientific, but there was an excellent video series called "everything is a remix"

http://everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/

Re: StarCraft: The past, present and future

#40
I was just at the Legacy of the Void launch event at the Coex in Seoul. There was one developer on hand who took questions from the crowd and tried to answer them without giving away any spoilers. There were also a few show matches between popular players, and a wedding for a former Broodwar pro player; it was quite the event.

Even though other genres are a lot more popular than RTS is now, the packed venue makes me optimistic about the future of the Starcraft franchise.

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