Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't • Hacker News Board

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#41

Post by da1 » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:31 PM UTC

lobster_johnson wrote: post #40

da1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweeden has many "peculiarities", the one that tremendously impresses me is that voting is effectively not secret. From what was described to me, when you vote you ask for a sheet of paper. You can ask for several but you'll get weird looks from people. The end result is that anyone that votes in fringe options is effectively identified because no one else asks for those options. The person that told me this was comp…

For those curious, the process is described here [1]. As a voter, you go to a table and pick a ballot that represents your choice. You can pick a pre-printed ballot with your party's name on it, or you can take a blank ballot and write it manually. If you want to keep your choice secret, you can pick a bunch of random ballots, but submit just one of them. For comparison, in Sweden's neighbouring country of Norway, th…

Thank you very much for the detailed description.

> or you can take a blank ballot and write it manually

I've been told that in small places in the countryside doing this is tremendously deviant and carries serious covert social consequences.

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#42

Post by Excavator » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:32 PM UTC

da1 wrote: post #36

krig wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to comment on the Assange case itself since I don't know the details, I'm not a lawyer, and there's so much misinformation out there that it must be almost impossible even for the prosecutors to keep track of what "the case" actually is, but... indeed, the swedish justice system is in many ways archaic. I guess unjust is the best word to describe it. Basically, it's a system that has evolved over time i…

Sweeden has many "peculiarities", the one that tremendously impresses me is that voting is effectively not secret. From what was described to me, when you vote you ask for a sheet of paper. You can ask for several but you'll get weird looks from people. The end result is that anyone that votes in fringe options is effectively identified because no one else asks for those options. The person that told me this was comp…

It varies, usually you have all the papers laid out in a room. You're then free to pick just the ones you'll vote on or you can do like some and take one of each.

Parties will often also send voting blankets in the mail so you can somewhat secretly bring your own papers from home. The only issue there is that some places sets up the voting stands in such a poor way that people almost can see what you're doing anyway.

Another issue that has occurred during the past couple of elections is that the RF/AFA frat boys decided to stand guard at the entrance of some voting places, trying to stop people who intended to vote for SD.

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#43

Post by da1 » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:34 PM UTC

mbrock wrote: post #28

krig wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to comment on the Assange case itself since I don't know the details, I'm not a lawyer, and there's so much misinformation out there that it must be almost impossible even for the prosecutors to keep track of what "the case" actually is, but... indeed, the swedish justice system is in many ways archaic. I guess unjust is the best word to describe it. Basically, it's a system that has evolved over time i…

Swedish drug policy is also seriously unjust, according to the UN's Deputy High Commissioner for Human Rights. http://www.thelocal.se/20151108/un-swedish-drug-policy-viola... > Sweden has one of the EU's most restrictive drug policies, with zero tolerance for drug use and possession. At the same time, the rate of drug-induced deaths is among the highest in the union, and they are on the rise. > [...] Only six out of…

> We always look at Sweden as a very advanced country with the most progressive policies

Sweden and Norway were the undisputed leaders in lobotomies per capita up to the 1970s so not long ago.

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#44

Post by chris_wot » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:35 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #11

mbrock wrote: post #6

One fascinating part of this story is Göran Lambertz, who was chancellor of justice during the trials and is now a supreme court judge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6ran_Lambertz He fervently maintains that Quick is indeed guilty, and that there was nothing at all wrong with the proceedings of the justice system. In fact he claims, to this day as far as I know, that the evidence against Quick is "extraordinari…

> arrives at a probability of 183%. I don't see anything wrong with the math. It simply means that Quick is certainly guilty, with an 83% chance of being double-guilty, which is an obscure legal term I don't expect the technocrat audience of HN to be familiar with.

Sort of like a reverse double jeopardy, huh?

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#45

Post by chris_wot » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:37 PM UTC

da1 wrote: post #41

lobster_johnson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those curious, the process is described here [1]. As a voter, you go to a table and pick a ballot that represents your choice. You can pick a pre-printed ballot with your party's name on it, or you can take a blank ballot and write it manually. If you want to keep your choice secret, you can pick a bunch of random ballots, but submit just one of them. For comparison, in Sweden's neighbouring country of Norway, th…

Thank you very much for the detailed description. > or you can take a blank ballot and write it manually I've been told that in small places in the countryside doing this is tremendously deviant and carries serious covert social consequences.

That seems very backward. They took the blind ballot and modified it, missing the point entirely!

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#46

Post by Excavator » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:44 PM UTC

mbrock wrote: post #28

krig wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to comment on the Assange case itself since I don't know the details, I'm not a lawyer, and there's so much misinformation out there that it must be almost impossible even for the prosecutors to keep track of what "the case" actually is, but... indeed, the swedish justice system is in many ways archaic. I guess unjust is the best word to describe it. Basically, it's a system that has evolved over time i…

Swedish drug policy is also seriously unjust, according to the UN's Deputy High Commissioner for Human Rights. http://www.thelocal.se/20151108/un-swedish-drug-policy-viola... > Sweden has one of the EU's most restrictive drug policies, with zero tolerance for drug use and possession. At the same time, the rate of drug-induced deaths is among the highest in the union, and they are on the rise. > [...] Only six out of…

Seems to be needed given how people handle prescription drugs.

Way too many people ignore doctors orders and stop taking their prescription drugs once they "feel well" and then they keep it around in case they or someone they know "feels ill".

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#47

Post by Excavator » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:47 PM UTC

da1 wrote: post #43

mbrock wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swedish drug policy is also seriously unjust, according to the UN's Deputy High Commissioner for Human Rights. http://www.thelocal.se/20151108/un-swedish-drug-policy-viola... > Sweden has one of the EU's most restrictive drug policies, with zero tolerance for drug use and possession. At the same time, the rate of drug-induced deaths is among the highest in the union, and they are on the rise. > [...] Only six out of…

> We always look at Sweden as a very advanced country with the most progressive policies Sweden and Norway were the undisputed leaders in lobotomies per capita up to the 1970s so not long ago.

Perhaps that's why so many people appear to be addicted to aspirin, one every morning.

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#48

Post by Excavator » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:55 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #32

I remember watching the documentaries about him in the 90's. As I understand it, there was scant technical evidence against him but he produced some very detailed and convincing confessions of his murders. One which he retold in an interview was him sneaking up on a camping German couple sleeping in a tent and stabbing them both to death while they were still trapped inside. He also told stories about his step father…

As I remember it, these stories were mostly due to the "psychologists" basically cheering him on, same with the media. This is an example of our abhorrent mental health system as much as our legal system.

Didn't they also manage to pull in some medium somehow?

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#49

Post by da1 » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:58 PM UTC

Excavator wrote: post #42

da1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweeden has many "peculiarities", the one that tremendously impresses me is that voting is effectively not secret. From what was described to me, when you vote you ask for a sheet of paper. You can ask for several but you'll get weird looks from people. The end result is that anyone that votes in fringe options is effectively identified because no one else asks for those options. The person that told me this was comp…

It varies, usually you have all the papers laid out in a room. You're then free to pick just the ones you'll vote on or you can do like some and take one of each. Parties will often also send voting blankets in the mail so you can somewhat secretly bring your own papers from home. The only issue there is that some places sets up the voting stands in such a poor way that people almost can see what you're doing anyway.…

How come this is never brought up in international settings, say the UN or EU?

It's so outlandish when I first heard it I though people were just joking.

Re: Thomas Quick: The serial killer who wasn't

#50

Post by scintill76 » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 1:00 AM UTC

chris_wot wrote: post #39

johansch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have to ask that question you're probably in the 96% (my estimate) that are grossly misinformed about this case, due to international media being idiotic and easily manipulated by Assange's pawns.

Why don't you, you know, inform me?

Here's some background on the allegations: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-... The final three paragraphs are a pretty good summary of the holes in the story.

Timeline: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-11949341 Note that between March and August of this year, Swedish prosecutors couldn't be bothered to come to London to question him, allowing most of the charges against him to expire. This in spite of them finally compromising on that, precisely beause the cases would soon expire.

I won't pretend it's a clear-cut case in either direction, but the supicion that he's being unjustly targeted certainly has merit. The victims go to the police, days later, to try to foce him to take an STD test(?) -- the police can't do that, but here have a rape case as a consolation (which of course instantly leaks to the press. And the discussion between the two women about selling their story to the press was just a joke, naturally.) Then the Swedish prosecutors close and re-open the case, the UK spends millions guarding the man, Sweden won't come and question him in the UK (which could be a valid position on sovereignty, but they had finally said they would come to the UK!), and the UK stops guarding him. Yeah, there's definitely nothing fishy here! All the resources spent here have nothing to do with the man in question being an enemy to the United States and their allies. /s

Some of this may be a case of international bureaucratic bumbling being indistuingishable from malicious conspiracy.

I'm open to hearing the other side if I'm missing things. Assange doesn't sound like a very pleasant person, he was probably at the least stupid to get himself ensnared in this, is now by definition an outlaw, and this narrative would be a convenient way to re-cast himself as the victim if he's not. But that's orthogonal to whether he is a rapist.