American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#91

Post by Retra » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 10:47 PM UTC

elinchrome wrote: post #16

ajmurmann wrote: post #8

I never understood the sentiment of valuing babies over all else. To me it always seemed obvious that fresh college graduates are most valuable to society, since we just finished investing a ton of money into them. Babies on the other hand are easily replaced. I get this is mainly an emotional argument, but it's still startling to me how opposite it is to the purely economic argument I made above. In fact usually peo…

> Babies on the other hand are easily replaced. Someone has never had a baby.

Yeah, some people even do it on accident.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#92

Post by jamra » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 10:48 PM UTC

josephjrobison wrote: post #52

"Ayelet Waldman, where the author explained that she loved her husband more than her four children." Recently did some pre-marital counseling where they recommend that you put your spouse above your children. Seemed really strange to me and counter-intuitive. I don't know much about marriage at all, but if you think about it, the trickle-down effect does seem to make sense as setting an example is a good lesson for k…

To me, parenting is like Atlas lifting up the world. It may seem logical to focus entirely on the object of importance (the world), but if Atlas doesn't eat right he will start to wane. His bones will lose their density and he'll start to lose muscle mass. Eventually, he won't be able to lift the world. My relationship with my wife is just that. The more we put into each other, the stronger we become individually and as a pair.

Your kids will adjust to the lifestyle you set for them and happy parents have more to give.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#93

Post by ryanmarsh » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

I would like to understand the relevance of this article to Hacker News. Perhaps it would be helpful if I could see a demographic breakdown of visitors: marital status, age, and number of offspring.

"Once our gods have left us, we try to pick up the pieces of our long neglected marriages and find new purpose. Is it surprising that divorce rates are rising fastest for new empty nesters? Perhaps it is time that we gave the parenthood religion a second thought."

So divorce rates for empty nesters are the kids fault or kids are holding together marriages that were doomed before they left the nest? This article is garbage.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#94

Post by notacoward » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #8

I never understood the sentiment of valuing babies over all else. To me it always seemed obvious that fresh college graduates are most valuable to society, since we just finished investing a ton of money into them. Babies on the other hand are easily replaced. I get this is mainly an emotional argument, but it's still startling to me how opposite it is to the purely economic argument I made above. In fact usually peo…

The purely economic argument is not about which is the bigger sunk cost. It's not about which will create the most total economic value, either. It's about the delta in economic value from additional investment. College grads are already on an upward trajectory. Statistically and as a group, they're likely to create significant value without any additional investment. Babies, on the other hand, are entirely unrealized potential. Significant investment is still necessary.

In a way, your argument works against your conclusion. The more you've already spent, the less remains to be spent before the person takes off on their own trajectory. Fresh grads don't scale like startups do. They don't need ever-increasing investment to keep up with growth. They're (ideally) more like established companies, already capable of generating their own income and no longer in need of infusions from outside. They don't need our attention as much as babies do. That's why we call them incubators. ;)

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#95

Post by douche » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:03 PM UTC

unabst wrote: post #14

1) This comparison to me says more about religion than it does about parenting. Unconditional love and devotion to your baby? The feeling is physical, and the baby is real. To be able to invoke the same feelings for a deity appears more magical to me than parenting, especially for those who have never experienced having a child. 2) American parenting isn't killing marriage. Marriages are killed one at a time by the u…

I'm not so sure that "Once two capable independent adults decide to part ways, nothing could be easier." Particularly when children are involved, it can be very messy, very ugly, and ruinous for one or both parties, mentally and financially. Even in an ideal DINK relationship, depending on the state you live in, it can be difficult to come to a clean, amicable break, without ongoing obligations.

It certainly is easier to live one's life on one's own terms. Indeed, that might be the only way to live one's life, in the long term. Therefore, it is of the utmost importance when choosing a partner to make sure that both parties have compatible terms.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#96

Post by clockworkelf » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:04 PM UTC

What a dumb article. Seriously, it's simply trolling the late 20-something females who feel a pang of guilt of choosing a career path over kids. And it trolls the late 20-something females who believe they can "have it all" and don't have enough guilt for compromising child-rearing for career-rearing. They're fucking with our heads people.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#97

Post by nitrogen » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:06 PM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #85

ajmurmann wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly agree that we need a healthy mix. However, for fresh college graduates there is more time left to pay off the investment we made in them as a society. In fact I believe they will be at their most productive a little later than that. But they get there as they get older. Edit: Typos

Meh... I don't think there is really much difference from your average fresh college grad and your average non-college educated 22 year old. I guess from an economical sense college is expensive but... I don't know... how many college grads actually use their degree?

I think the more important question is how many college grads actually benefit from their education (modified words italicized). A degree in, say, forestry should still be useful for someone working in sales because of the experience dealing with diverse opinions, processing new information, and studying a range of subjects.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#98

Post by brazzledazzle » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:08 PM UTC

I love my kids and I think they each have unique things about them that make them great. I also think they can be amazingly compassionate and caring little people. But let's be real: By and large kids are at least a little bit sociopathic assholes. It's that behavior that you spend the better part of their early lives trying to excise from them.

Does anyone remember being a kid? Regardless of whether you were the victim, perpetrator, instigator or bystander just think back on how cruel bullies could be both verbally and physically.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#99

Post by ajmurmann » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:12 PM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #85

ajmurmann wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly agree that we need a healthy mix. However, for fresh college graduates there is more time left to pay off the investment we made in them as a society. In fact I believe they will be at their most productive a little later than that. But they get there as they get older. Edit: Typos

Meh... I don't think there is really much difference from your average fresh college grad and your average non-college educated 22 year old. I guess from an economical sense college is expensive but... I don't know... how many college grads actually use their degree?

I agree that the college angle adds unnecessary assumptions to the argument. It would probably be easier to agree on "young adults ready to enter the work force". Especially given the tremendous value many drop outs are adding.

Re: American parenting is killing the American marriage (2014)

#100

Post by sporro » Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 11:18 PM UTC

pen2l wrote: post #18

philwelch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Babies are full of potential. Fresh college graduates...let's be honest...are less so.

Roughly 34% of Americans go on to complete college. Strictly and mathematically speaking, the fresh college graduates are a much better bet than babies.

Any random baby, maybe. Also there's the issue of malleability.