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Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

greenbuildingadvisor.com

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Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#241

Post by k_sze »

spronkey wrote: post #186
rsync wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but a wood frame doesn't have to imply stick-built, green and wet 2x4 construction. Even in modern times where big timbers are scarce, you can still get straight, true, kiln-dried douglas fir in large (8x8, 8x12) sizes relatively cheaply.

I think one of the issues with the better woods in particular is sustainability of growth. Basically every house built today in NZ will be using Pinus Radiata, which is a less dense wood that grows very very quickly, and is very sustainable. In the past, e.g. 1960 and earlier, houses used Rimu, and potentially Kauri - both of which are very hard, very dense woods that will test even the best drill bits - but they're…

There are two approaches to sustainability: 1. Use quality material that is slow to come by, but build stuff that lasts for decades, or even centuries. 2. Use "sustainably" produced material, but build utter shit that doesn't last and that you expect to throw away in a few years.

For stuff like houses, I prefer the first approach.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#242

Post by gambiting »

sanoli wrote: post #236
peteretep wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You couldn't buy a washing machine 20 years ago that was anywhere near as energy efficient, kind to your clothes, could figure out the right amount of detergent or softener to use, or had features like remote operation so your clothes don't sit damp all day. Durability is not the only mark of quality.

You're right. But... ...my dad's top-end washing machine bought 25 years ago is still going strong, working without a hitch. Had simple maintenance once . All the while I'm about to get my third model in 14 years.

Survivorship bias. People point to a 25-year old washing machine and say "look, it still works!" but are unaware of millions of other 25-year old washing machines that are currently in our landfills.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#243

Post by icebraining »

_delirium wrote: post #200
cma wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, replacing the circuit board on a washing machine is pretty common and easy.

I've only tried once, but I wasn't able to find anyone who could do that when mine died. It's possible the repair people I tried were just not knowledgeable, but they claimed you can't get those kinds of parts for older discontinued models (it was somewhere around 8-9 years old at the time it got knocked out by a lightning storm, while a washing machine mechanically should last ~15-20 years). I do know someone whose…

We just got one pretty cheap for our 20-years-old Miele, it came from a machine that had something else break.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#244

Post by Symbiote »

ngoede wrote: post #171
ams6110 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing is the drywall. Interior walls in homes used to be plaster, troweled onto lathe or wire backing in several coats. Plaster is a LOT heavier than drywall: it's basically like having 3/4-inch cement walls. Plaster walls lend a sense of solidity and quiet to the entire house. The basic framing of houses is not that much different.

Of course they also tend to fail for the same reason as gravity slowly pulls them off the lathe.

How often do you think plaster should last?

I've lived in Europe for almost 30 years, and have never seen the plaster fall off the wall/ceiling without some serious other cause, like a leaking roof or serious subsidence.

My mum's house was built in 1908. A water leak in the summer meant part of the ceiling was ruined. The plasterer said it was original lath and plaster, and gave her a discount as he said it was a pleasure to work with.

21% of dwellings in England were built before 1919.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#245

Post by maccard »

danieltillett wrote: post #138
nikatwork wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7' is accurate for many new Housing Estate houses eg AV Jennings. The buildings all look similar except for roof color. It's very disorientating. My house is 1860s with a 12' ceiling. Those other places feel like claustrophobic rabbit holes in comparison. Low ceilings minimize material costs and maximize profits.

This is exactly right - it is done to reduce the building cost. Of course having a ceiling this low is terrible for natural cooling so you then have to run air conditioning all the time costing far more in the long run. I live in a 1920s building with 11’ ceilings and I don’t have or need air conditioning because the place stays cool enough even through the height of summer.

most places in the UK don't run AC even during the summer.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#246

Post by cmarschner »

old-gregg wrote: post #109

The quality of modern construction (not necessarily brick) is a big pet peeve of mine and something I keep looking for answers. The way I see it, some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. It is especially easy to see when looking at NYC buildings, some rentals are even explicitly advertized as "pre-war". Examples of…

One main development might be the specialization of the construction industry and the advent of professional management after WWII. When homes are not built by home owners but by development companies, a totally different set of incentives might fall in place, and with professional management one might start looking for metrics and optimizing against them.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#247

Post by cafard »

spc476 wrote: post #223
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A combination of three things, IMHO: 1. Labor specialization, meaning less of the home-buying market is savvy enough in the "handyman" sense to tell the difference. 2. A move away from building the thing you're going to own, and building things that other people will buy later. 3. Minimum standards for housing construction. The third needs to be explained more - instead of aiming towards "building a good home", the c…

Yup. When Hurricane Andrew blew through South Florida in 1992, homes in the direct path that were built prior to modern building standards survived, while more modern homes (I think post-1980) were unlivable (or totally gone, depending on the area). Part of that was declining building standards (go too long between hurricanes and yes, people get complacent). But another aspect, I think, is a shift in home ownership--…

The theory of ownership in the Washington area, as explained by a realtor at the end of the 1980s, but probably commonly held for 15 or 20 years before that, was that you bought, held for a few years to get back your closing costs and let the property appreciate some, then moved on to something more expensive. One can see why a realtor might think well of this idea.

The one thing I will say for modern houses is that the wiring will generally be better and with outlets better spaced. They might be better insulated. But my goodness, the quality of the workmanship and often materials. We watched a house going up next to us, and had to think that big is a lot cheaper than good.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#248

Post by sanoli »

gambiting wrote: post #242
sanoli wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. But... ...my dad's top-end washing machine bought 25 years ago is still going strong, working without a hitch. Had simple maintenance once . All the while I'm about to get my third model in 14 years.

Survivorship bias. People point to a 25-year old washing machine and say "look, it still works!" but are unaware of millions of other 25-year old washing machines that are currently in our landfills.

I'm talking about a specific model of washer. My dad did his research, talked to a bunch of maintenance guys who repaired machines for a living, and ended up buying the best built machine that was being sold. Recently I bought a couple of used Snap-on hand tools that were made in the early 90's. I know how tough they are. They are just pretty damn well built. In 20 years if I remark how great they're still going, that's not actually survivorship bias. Some things are supposed to last this long.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#249

Post by douche »

sanoli wrote: post #248
gambiting wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Survivorship bias. People point to a 25-year old washing machine and say "look, it still works!" but are unaware of millions of other 25-year old washing machines that are currently in our landfills.

I'm talking about a specific model of washer. My dad did his research, talked to a bunch of maintenance guys who repaired machines for a living, and ended up buying the best built machine that was being sold. Recently I bought a couple of used Snap-on hand tools that were made in the early 90's. I know how tough they are. They are just pretty damn well built. In 20 years if I remark how great they're still going, tha…

Snap-on is fantastic. If anyone ever sees any for sale at yard sales - even broken, rusted-up, mostly junk tools, buy them. If you can find a distributor, they honor the lifetime warranty.

Craftsman tools used to be the same, although you have to be careful - they've started mixing in the cheapo junk lines and putting the Craftsman name on them, and those don't necessarily have the same warranty policy.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#250

Post by douche »

madaxe_again wrote: post #211
babuskov wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called Planned Obsolescence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Came here to say exactly that. Not sure why folks wouldn't think that the same philosophy which overtook manufactured goods post-war wouldn't also apply to construction. I mean, I'm sat here in my living room, place was built 1798 (relatively modern), near as damnit everything is original. Stone floors. Stone fireplaces. Stone walls. Lath and plaster ceilings. Lime plaster. They knew what they were doing, this shit i…

I've never understood why people put asphalt shingles on new houses, instead of putting on steel roofing. It might be a hair cheaper, but the difference between shingle and the screw-on steel panels is not that much.

A.) Snow doesn't come off of shingles worth a damn unless you have a wicked pitch on your roof. So you have to get up and shovel off the roof, or risk icedams, leaks, and potentially the whole roof collapsing if you have really heavy snowfall.

B.) Shingles only last about 20-30 years. Steel roofing lasts a lifetime. You might have to repaint it once in a great while.

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