Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
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Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#2In general, I think anywhere the rule of law lays lightly, this is the norm. Employees are at the mercy of powerful employers, so they learn to take advantage of the system. When foreigners (or idealistic locals) go into business, they find themselves contending with behaviors meant to deal with abusive employers in the absence of an impartial judiciary (this is the same China that lets the wealthy hire people to serve prison time for them, after all). In general, it's just not worth the effort until Beijing's reforms start producing real effects.
Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#3It seems very similar to experiences I've heard about from friends running businesses in Russia and, to a lesser degree, in Mexico (where your business partners are more reliable but the government is horribly corrupt and obstructionist). One rule of thumb I was told regarding the early days in post-Soviet Russia was that you were either going to pay the mobsters a quarter of your revenue or the FSK a third, and that…
Foreigners really shouldn't be starting businesses in China, the rules (or lack of them) are just not in your favor.
Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#41) Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. This may happen while they are still working for you. If it's easy for your business to be stolen this way don't even bother setting up.
2) You need locals to handle staff. You're just a foreigner to be taken advantage of. They push rules and issues at you all day trying to get more. A local manager will tell them to bugger off in a way you can't.
3)The great firewall can be a bastard and your best with infrastructure inside the country and local knowledge. Things like don't use one time click links as these are used before they even get to the customer.
4) Chinese will often find a way to get something done with horribly inefficient routes and deals to the goal. Don't stress trying to make it efficient, this is China.
5) Dont expect your JV partner to work in the companies best interest.
While China is a huge & interesting market, if there is anyway 1) is going to be the smallest concert or your reliance on a JV partner delivering something I'd look at other markets first.
I'm genuinely surprised the west hasn't made China create a more level playing field for the right to trade/invest in our markets. One day the rest of the world will realise what a one sided deal China has become.
Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#5"What is required to obtain an M visa?
...
An invitation letter from a trade fair such as Canton Fair or from a Chinese firm (in the event that you get your visa through a Chinese agency, it’s possible that they will be the ones to procure the letter for you)" http://www.saporedicina.com/english/business-visas-for-china...
"Which situation does NOT count as a short term working (M)?
Mechanical after sales team come to China to repair, install, maintain, remove, guidance, training (Apply M visa) Bid Winner come to China to do the project guidance, supervision, checking (Apply M visa) Foreigner from head office goes to shanghai branch, representative office to have some short term work (Apply M visa) Foreigner comes to China to attend the sports event, including coach, athlete, team doctor, assistant etc. (Apply M visa)" http://www.visainchina.com/fvisa.htm
The above site also makes it clear that the Z visa is for short term work (under 90 days).
Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#6Biggest rules I've seen from working with chinese JV's; 1) Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. This may happen while they are still working for you. If it's easy for your business to be stolen this way don't even bother setting up. 2) You need locals to handle staff. You're just a foreigner to be taken advantage of. They push rules and issues at you all day trying to get more. A local manager wi…
For example the requirement for B-1 (business visa) makes it clear that you are supposed to stay temporarily and not here to work:
"For example, additional requested documents may include evidence of:
The purpose of your trip; Your intent to depart the United States after your trip; and/or Your ability to pay all costs of the trip. Evidence of your employment and/or your family ties may be sufficient to show the purpose of your trip and your intent to return to your home country. " http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visitor.html
Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#7It seems very similar to experiences I've heard about from friends running businesses in Russia and, to a lesser degree, in Mexico (where your business partners are more reliable but the government is horribly corrupt and obstructionist). One rule of thumb I was told regarding the early days in post-Soviet Russia was that you were either going to pay the mobsters a quarter of your revenue or the FSK a third, and that…
And if you are American, you are completely bound by the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, so you can't even bribe that mobster or official. Your rule book is going to be different. Foreigners really shouldn't be starting businesses in China, the rules (or lack of them) are just not in your favor.
Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
And if you are American, you are completely bound by the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, so you can't even bribe that mobster or official. Your rule book is going to be different. Foreigners really shouldn't be starting businesses in China, the rules (or lack of them) are just not in your favor.
Considering where US companies operate especially in the Energy sector they probably found a 1000 different ways to "legally" pay bribes without violating the FCP or any other similar legislation.
Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Considering where US companies operate especially in the Energy sector they probably found a 1000 different ways to "legally" pay bribes without violating the FCP or any other similar legislation.
Not really, you'll get caught eventually, especially in the energy sector; e.g. Triton Energy. It is an incredibly effective piece of legislation, Jimmy Carter and company really gave us something that would benefit the world (you can't just say "this is how they do it here so this is what I do").
Re: Smaller Overseas Entrepreneurs Find China Too Frustrating
#10Biggest rules I've seen from working with chinese JV's; 1) Employees will attempt to steal IP and copy the business. This may happen while they are still working for you. If it's easy for your business to be stolen this way don't even bother setting up. 2) You need locals to handle staff. You're just a foreigner to be taken advantage of. They push rules and issues at you all day trying to get more. A local manager wi…
Nobody here speaks English.
And I don't mean it like in typical Western way of "frankly, you must see that my language skills are indeed not suitably developed for this conversation" not speaking English. They'll roll their eyes if you say "hello" or "thank you" to them; you can sometimes get to be translated by a 9 years old (apparently they have English in schools now, or something - but I'm not sure). Even in tech companies people barely know any English - they know the work-related vocabulary, but forget talking about anything other than the job.
So, learn their language or find someone who you trust who can speak it.