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Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

greenbuildingadvisor.com

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Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#191
post #170

Here's another question: why is the architecture in San Francisco so awful? I would take cruddy brick over hideous paneling any day.

What architecture are you speaking of? Wood buildings like the very common Victorians? I don't know what you mean by "hideous paneling," but of the many places I've lived, San Francisco has the most beautiful/interesting architecture. I grew up in a brick house on the east coast, and I find that sort of architecture drab comparatively.

Oh, no. I'm talking about stuff that's been built over the last 1 or 2 decades. Mainly, the disgusting loft buildings in SOMA and all the larger, paneled residential buildings.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not just an issue with housing. Virtually EVERY product is built with less long-term quality. I collect antique espresso machines. Some of these are highly sought after because they use big, heavy, high quality components: big brass boilers, copper piping, stainless steel enclosures and big brass groupheads. Compare that with many flimsy, plastic machines today (which rarely last more than a couple years), an…

> Virtually EVERY product Well not just physical products. Flights are another good example. > Compare that with many flimsy, plastic machines today ... that are available at a cheap accessible price. It's still entirely possible to buy espresso machines that are built like tanks, or ones that have lots of expensive electronics, and so on. The high-end of the market has not disappeared... > it's no wonder there is a…

> the expensive end is even better than (and more expensive than) the best of the best was 20 years ago

I'm not sure about this part, unless you are very careful in what you're shopping for, and knowledgeable about it. One Achilles heel of a lot of current appliances is that there are now circuit boards everywhere, which are a common point of premature failure. If the computerized part of your appliance fails (due to a power surge, capacitor aging, etc.), the device is effectively bricked in a difficult-to-repair way, even if all the mechanical parts are still fine. One option is to buy all-mechanical high-end models, which works with some appliances (espresso machines) but is basically impossible with others (washing machines).

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#193
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when it comes to this particular issue: build quality between 1800s and today has declined. If anything, a whole bunch of perfectly decent old buildings have been torn down. Because they were no longer of any use (prolonged vacancy is the worst for any building), not because they were falling apart. Somewhat of a tangent. Good architecture has three properties: it's useful, it's robust, and it's beautiful. That's…

> the godless machine age Which began in the 1700s or earlier, with the Dark Satanic Mills.

1800s. Blake wrote that in 1804.

More significantly, it took a fair bit of time for modern methods to enter into construction. Structural steel and skyscrapers along with many other "modern" inventions date to the 1880s. Modern "stick" housing began largely in the 1940s.

You can find catalogs of old housing, literally, in Sears Roebuck catalogs, detailing design and construction.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#194

The quality of modern construction (not necessarily brick) is a big pet peeve of mine and something I keep looking for answers. The way I see it, some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. It is especially easy to see when looking at NYC buildings, some rentals are even explicitly advertized as "pre-war". Examples of…

If you go around old homes in Portland, you will see lathe and plaster walls as smooth as a still lake built close to 100 years ago, not to mention lovingly crafted wood details.

If you go into a modern home, you see sheet drywall with tons of shitty looking texture all over it to hide the deep imperfections with the hanging of the drywall, and nary a wood detail to be found.

It's absurd that we've taken these woefully cheaper home construction standards with the prices of housing.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Virtually EVERY product Well not just physical products. Flights are another good example. > Compare that with many flimsy, plastic machines today ... that are available at a cheap accessible price. It's still entirely possible to buy espresso machines that are built like tanks, or ones that have lots of expensive electronics, and so on. The high-end of the market has not disappeared... > it's no wonder there is a…

> the expensive end is even better than (and more expensive than) the best of the best was 20 years ago I'm not sure about this part, unless you are very careful in what you're shopping for, and knowledgeable about it. One Achilles heel of a lot of current appliances is that there are now circuit boards everywhere, which are a common point of premature failure. If the computerized part of your appliance fails (due to…

You couldn't buy a washing machine 20 years ago that was anywhere near as energy efficient, kind to your clothes, could figure out the right amount of detergent or softener to use, or had features like remote operation so your clothes don't sit damp all day. Durability is not the only mark of quality.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Virtually EVERY product Well not just physical products. Flights are another good example. > Compare that with many flimsy, plastic machines today ... that are available at a cheap accessible price. It's still entirely possible to buy espresso machines that are built like tanks, or ones that have lots of expensive electronics, and so on. The high-end of the market has not disappeared... > it's no wonder there is a…

> the expensive end is even better than (and more expensive than) the best of the best was 20 years ago I'm not sure about this part, unless you are very careful in what you're shopping for, and knowledgeable about it. One Achilles heel of a lot of current appliances is that there are now circuit boards everywhere, which are a common point of premature failure. If the computerized part of your appliance fails (due to…

FWIW, replacing the circuit board on a washing machine is pretty common and easy.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#197

The quality of modern construction (not necessarily brick) is a big pet peeve of mine and something I keep looking for answers. The way I see it, some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. It is especially easy to see when looking at NYC buildings, some rentals are even explicitly advertized as "pre-war". Examples of…

"some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. "

We stopped living in walkable villages and cities and started living in motorway dependant sprawling suburbs. Our buildings got uglier. Our built environment got worse even as we got richer.

Largely this was a matter of public policy. The Roosevelt administration made new rules to plan new development to promote industry during the Depression and imposed it on banks and local planning boards. Still, there wasn't enough push to get the banks to allow anything to be built. Then after the war, those regulations had been in place for almost fifteen years and nothing had been built in the whole country for 16 years since the Depression began.

So people took the rules as gospel and built using them. The only thing allowed was car dependant sprawl and the car companies -- an enormous political power right after the war -- loved it. So the whole country was redesigned. It still is. And if your community isn't worth loving -- as sprawl isn't -- then it isn't worth building beautiful buildings.

That's why this is now the nation of NIMBYism. People can see that nothing has gotten built here but garbage since 1929 and they don't want more of it. Places like San Francisco are now like jewels and museums since nobody has been allowed to build like that in 86 years and won't be allowed to start tomorrow. The epoch when things could be new and beautiful has passed from living memory.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#198

Bank buildings built before 1929 tend to be massive masonry structures with greek columns, marble, etc. Ones build later tend to be cracker boxes in strip malls. My theory is that the older banks needed to impress their clients with stability, conservativeness, safety, responsibility, etc. After FDIC, customers looked to the government for that, and so banks no longer needed to spend the money on the building. The ma…

While most money does exist electronically, you'd be surprised at the amounts of actual cash and gold which are stored in major banking centers.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#199

The quality of modern construction (not necessarily brick) is a big pet peeve of mine and something I keep looking for answers. The way I see it, some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. It is especially easy to see when looking at NYC buildings, some rentals are even explicitly advertized as "pre-war". Examples of…

The main thing is the drywall. Interior walls in homes used to be plaster, troweled onto lathe or wire backing in several coats. Plaster is a LOT heavier than drywall: it's basically like having 3/4-inch cement walls. Plaster walls lend a sense of solidity and quiet to the entire house. The basic framing of houses is not that much different.

>The basic framing of houses is not that much different.

Lots of the old houses people are pining for here used death-trap "balloon framing".

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#200
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the expensive end is even better than (and more expensive than) the best of the best was 20 years ago I'm not sure about this part, unless you are very careful in what you're shopping for, and knowledgeable about it. One Achilles heel of a lot of current appliances is that there are now circuit boards everywhere, which are a common point of premature failure. If the computerized part of your appliance fails (due to…

FWIW, replacing the circuit board on a washing machine is pretty common and easy.

I've only tried once, but I wasn't able to find anyone who could do that when mine died. It's possible the repair people I tried were just not knowledgeable, but they claimed you can't get those kinds of parts for older discontinued models (it was somewhere around 8-9 years old at the time it got knocked out by a lightning storm, while a washing machine mechanically should last ~15-20 years).

I do know someone whose entire business is reverse-engineering bricked old devices, sticking in a new circuit board with custom software. But it's expensive enough to hire him that his customers are all businesses with expensive equipment they want rescued, mostly 1990s vintage produced by now-defunct companies.

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