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Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

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Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#121

Post by mixmastamyk »

old-gregg wrote: post #109

The quality of modern construction (not necessarily brick) is a big pet peeve of mine and something I keep looking for answers. The way I see it, some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. It is especially easy to see when looking at NYC buildings, some rentals are even explicitly advertized as "pre-war". Examples of…

Agreed, and wouldn't mind if my city (Los Angeles) bulldozed most, if not all of the buildings built around the 60's. This is also the time when suburbs became fashionable, for a double-whammy of craptastic design. These two factors, among others contribute immensely to the uninviting, ugly, even amateurish feel to much of the city.

> 10ft ceilings

These were no longer necessary once air conditioning was invented. However high ceilings and window awnings are more energy efficient and therefore should probably make a comeback.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#122

Post by ThrustVectoring »

old-gregg wrote: post #109

The quality of modern construction (not necessarily brick) is a big pet peeve of mine and something I keep looking for answers. The way I see it, some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. It is especially easy to see when looking at NYC buildings, some rentals are even explicitly advertized as "pre-war". Examples of…

A combination of three things, IMHO:

1. Labor specialization, meaning less of the home-buying market is savvy enough in the "handyman" sense to tell the difference. 2. A move away from building the thing you're going to own, and building things that other people will buy later. 3. Minimum standards for housing construction.

The third needs to be explained more - instead of aiming towards "building a good home", the construction industry aims to build the cheapest thing that they are legally allowed to sell (ie, meets building codes). While building codes do mean that there's a quality floor, competitive pressure means that nobody can consistently exceed the floor without getting out-competed by people who aim to barely meet it.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#123

Post by awqrre »

dpark wrote: post #33
Animats wrote: post #17

Is the brick actually holding up the building? In many modern buildings, it's just a veneer, about 1cm thick. The steelwork holds it up. The new Box.net HQ in Redwood City looks like a brick building, but it's not; it's steel and concrete with about 1cm of brick on the outside. There's some nice work being done with brick today.[1] Some of this is gentrification, built to fit in with existing brick buildings, or to i…

> Is the brick actually holding up the building? This was my thought as well. The modern building is likely just using the brick as veneer, even if it is full-thickness brick. It's likely concrete walls with brick layered over it. The fact that the brickwork is poorly done likely doesn't matter except aesthetically. If all the brick fell off the building would still be standing. The newer building is indeed ugly, and…

I have heard stories of a whole brick wall falling off the home ... but the home was intact... it was not "glued"/secured properly.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#124

Post by chejazi »

Animats wrote: post #17

Is the brick actually holding up the building? In many modern buildings, it's just a veneer, about 1cm thick. The steelwork holds it up. The new Box.net HQ in Redwood City looks like a brick building, but it's not; it's steel and concrete with about 1cm of brick on the outside. There's some nice work being done with brick today.[1] Some of this is gentrification, built to fit in with existing brick buildings, or to i…

[0] http://peninsulapress.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2_lands...

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#125

Post by pjc50 »

beachstartup wrote: post #86
pjc50 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally true. The relative cost of wood vs brick also varies from country to country depending on local availability.

wood is definitely cheaper than brick but i have a hard time believing that a brick building will be more expensive than one made of steel and glass. the architecture, engineering, transport, etc. is where most of the cost comes from, not the building materials.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10522334 claims that brick is expensive enough for people to steal buildings!

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#126

Post by oh_sigh »

redcalx wrote: post #104
nikatwork wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7' is accurate for many new Housing Estate houses eg AV Jennings. The buildings all look similar except for roof color. It's very disorientating. My house is 1860s with a 12' ceiling. Those other places feel like claustrophobic rabbit holes in comparison. Low ceilings minimize material costs and maximize profits.

> Low ceilings minimize material costs and maximize profits. They also minimise heat loss, which is strictly regulated in the UK. Hence that other annoying feature of many modern build - tiny windows.

Why is heat loss regulated? Shouldn't I be able to heat my home as much or as little as I want?

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#127

Post by po »

Animats wrote: post #17

Is the brick actually holding up the building? In many modern buildings, it's just a veneer, about 1cm thick. The steelwork holds it up. The new Box.net HQ in Redwood City looks like a brick building, but it's not; it's steel and concrete with about 1cm of brick on the outside. There's some nice work being done with brick today.[1] Some of this is gentrification, built to fit in with existing brick buildings, or to i…

The article mentions that it's not a wood-framed building, I think implying that it's a true layered (multi-wythe) brick construction:

My analysis doesn't even address brick problems associated with the switch from multi-wythe brick construction to brick veneer over wood framing. (Andres Hall is not a wood-framed building.) Although buildings with brick veneer over wood framing are usually better insulated than old multi-wythe brick buildings, they are frequently plagued by an entirely new category of water entry problems due to flashing errors, clogged air spaces, and missing weep holes. But that's a topic for another article.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#128

Post by adevine »

old-gregg wrote: post #109

The quality of modern construction (not necessarily brick) is a big pet peeve of mine and something I keep looking for answers. The way I see it, some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. It is especially easy to see when looking at NYC buildings, some rentals are even explicitly advertized as "pre-war". Examples of…

This is not just an issue with housing. Virtually EVERY product is built with less long-term quality.

I collect antique espresso machines. Some of these are highly sought after because they use big, heavy, high quality components: big brass boilers, copper piping, stainless steel enclosures and big brass groupheads. Compare that with many flimsy, plastic machines today (which rarely last more than a couple years), and it's no wonder there is a market for these older machines.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#129

Post by dpark »

Cerium wrote: post #117
dpark wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the brick actually holding up the building? This was my thought as well. The modern building is likely just using the brick as veneer, even if it is full-thickness brick. It's likely concrete walls with brick layered over it. The fact that the brickwork is poorly done likely doesn't matter except aesthetically. If all the brick fell off the building would still be standing. The newer building is indeed ugly, and…

I fully expect that the brick is structural in those examples. My university had brick dorms "the bricks". They had brick exterior walls and cinder block interior walls. The brick walls were brick on the outside and the inside and only one brick thick.

If the interior walls are cinder block, I would expect the brick to be purely aesthetic. Cinder blocks don't need brick next to them for strength if built correctly.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#130

Post by y04nn »

What is the point of comparing a high class building with a low class building? They have not been constructed with the same budget and not to achieve the same goal. Clearly a dorm aims to lower the cost to an extreme, exactly the opposite of what a bank would do.
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