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Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

greenbuildingadvisor.com

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Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#71

Post by ItsDeathball »

dnautics wrote: post #49

I saw this brickwork on a building in nyc's financial district on a building maybe around 50-100 years old. https://plus.google.com/111337360985340071974/posts/KkDyX34u...

That's structural brick covered in stucco, which was pretty common in American cities in the 18th and 19th centuries. You see it a lot in areas with low-quality clay, since the resulting brick is porous and brittle, necessitating a stucco covering to protect it from the elements and not look awful. It might not be poor construction, just ugly because it's not intended to ever be seen. Of course, by design the stucco needs to be replaced every few decades, so who knows if it's been kept up.

That contrasts with the article's 1891 example of a building where the brickwork was both structural and decorative, requiring maximum attention to detail.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#72

Post by paulzerkel »

pjc50 wrote: post #59
jws wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 1950 brick building is 1/3 constructed from re-used brick. Many houses built in the 1960s in my area are also built of reused brick. There must have been some degree of brick teardown going on. Even now we have trouble with people stealing brick buildings. Unused houses are sometimes set ablaze by brick thieves, then later they come in the night and cart off the bricks.

stealing brick buildings This sounds totally bananas, where is this? Are the bricks made of gold or something?

This is a problem in parts of St. Louis, MO. The brick is of high enough quality that people will steal them for resale from abandoned buildings. Naturally, this leads to the building collapsing which causes even more issues for surrounding area.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#73

Post by computer »

danieltillett wrote: post #67
ealexhudson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last house was built in ~1936. It was cheap for the time, but the entire estate of houses it sat in was complete - virtually nothing had been removed. The form of the buildings had changed somewhat (extension for bathroom instead of toilet in the garden), but the brick walls were incredible and the internal timberwork (joists, frames, etc.) was all hardwood of a quality that would be very expensive now. My current…

I think one thing is buildings are now are built closer to their required engineering tolerances. In the past many building were massively over engineered, while modern buildings seem to be built for their exact expected lifespan. The one thing I really hate about most modern buildings here in Australia is the ceiling height has been reduced. A lot of modern buildings have ceiling heights around 7’ while old building…

Ceiling heights of 7 feet? Are you sure? Many tall people would only just fit upright...

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#74

Post by fweespeech »

danieltillett wrote: post #67
ealexhudson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last house was built in ~1936. It was cheap for the time, but the entire estate of houses it sat in was complete - virtually nothing had been removed. The form of the buildings had changed somewhat (extension for bathroom instead of toilet in the garden), but the brick walls were incredible and the internal timberwork (joists, frames, etc.) was all hardwood of a quality that would be very expensive now. My current…

I think one thing is buildings are now are built closer to their required engineering tolerances. In the past many building were massively over engineered, while modern buildings seem to be built for their exact expected lifespan. The one thing I really hate about most modern buildings here in Australia is the ceiling height has been reduced. A lot of modern buildings have ceiling heights around 7’ while old building…

Are you 100% sure its 7'? There are a number of people [if small percentage wise] that are 7'.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#75

Post by lr »

You can see the results of this all over NYC. A building down the street from where I live has had scaffolding around it for over 2 years as they replace the bricks (building owners have to test the bricks ever 5 years in NYC if their building is over 6 stories). This building was build in the 70s. I have no idea when they are going to be done.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#76

Post by scottious »

I don't buy any of it for even a second.

On my way to work, they're building this wonderful brick sidewalk. While still just a side walk and not a building, it's remarkably well crafted and detailed. I think we CAN do it, we just choose not to, economically.

I think somebody would rather save a lot of money and build something "good enough" these days than invest in craftsmanship. Also, I bet you don't have to look far to find a bunch of counter examples in modern times.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#77

Post by [deleted] »

afarrell wrote: post #35
beachstartup wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not only that, but back in the day brick was the fancy expensive option, today it isn't. those with big budgets and ambitious design goals choose other materials (steel, glass, etc.)

I thought brick was more expensive today due to labor costs and that steel and glass were comparatively cheap. Is this false?

[deleted]

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#78

Post by everyone »

pjc50 wrote: post #54

> "Part of the blame, I feel, rests at the feet of the Modernist movement — a movement that idealized the cube and disdained roof overhangs. Modernist architects were ignorant of the entire concept of moisture management. The fact that thousands of Modernist buildings suffered water entry problems did little to deter architects from falling in love with Modernism and Brutalism. This tragic love affair contributed to…

This was a good article but I think the authors assignment of blame is misplaced.

In my opinion the reason contemporary brick construction is not up to par with 100 year old brick construction is the same reason contemporary washing machines are not up to the standard of washing machines 100 years ago: The emphasis in making things now is on speed and cheapness, the emphasis 100 years ago was on quality.

The college dorm building was certainly thrown up in a fraction of the time, for a fraction of the price with a fraction of the labourers, than the bank building.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#79

Post by stephenboyd »

Retric wrote: post #10

Survivorship bias is a really important caveat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias Many cheap brick buildings from 100 years ago are gone, where the high quality ones are more likely to remain. Also, steel Lintel are often used over windows in brick buildings. They don't last as long, but are fine for cheap construction that is not expected to last. AKA the kinds of building that are unlikely to be aroun…

In Portland, Oregon, there are whole neighborhoods of 80-90% buildings from the 1880s through the 1930s. There still may be some survivorship bias on a whole-neighborhood level since those were mostly the middle-class areas with higher building quality. But if you compare those buildings to those built recently for the middle-class market, the craftsmanship is obviously different. And urban buildings for wealthy people have recently sidestepped craftsmanship entirely with minimal geometric styles of architecture. There's not a lot of room for ornamentation when the external walls are entirely glass.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#80

Post by jhallenworld »

There are some modern construction techniques that make me nervous:

One is pre-stressed concrete. This has replaced I-beams for highway bridges. The problem here is how do you inspect them? With steel I-beams you can use your eyes. With concrete maybe you need some kind of ultrasound equipment to check the tension cables? Do you trust those responsible for long-term maintenance to do it?

Another is engineered wood I-beams for houses. Basically these are floor joists made out of plywood. How long will they last? What happens if they get wet? If there is a fire the house is gone because the floor joists will be ruined by the water to put the fire out.

There were certainly mistakes in the past as well. One is building with cast-iron beams. They look nice, but they crack.

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