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I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

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Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once took a university course called "Chemical Equilibrium" which required some lab time. The labs were about examining solutions with unknown ions and figuring out what they were. A common tool in doing so is by bubbling hydrogen sulfide gas through the solution, which will cause the precipation of certain cations. Needless to say, we were warned about the dangers of H2S, and told that if it ever escaped the fume…

It occurs in deep wells that cave divers swim into as well. They often have to swim through an H2S layer, which can numb their lips and any exposed skin. It's generally a race to get through this layer and into the caves below as fast as possible.

so holding your breath doesn't help against H2S very well?

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#182

Not in petrochemicals, but neither is this is this reporter. I get it, it's supposed to be a joke, but it's such a poorly executed one fraught with so many major components glossed over that it detracts from any humor the article could have had. When the Onion writes something, it's humor is wonderful because not only the wit is there but there are few if any inconsistencies even for pedants who dissect things such a…

> HN traditionally had a "Don't downvote people solely because you disagree with them" policy. You are confusing HN with Reddit. HN never had such a policy, nor any, for that matter. pg specifically said before handing over the site that he didn't mind downvoting to disagree. I have seen no movement from new leadership on this; in fact, new leadership have doubled down on some of pg's worse calls. With the graying ou…

Fun fact: I find downvoting to be a completely worthless feature of this site for all of the reasons you've listed and more!

I find it useless to be in possession of the capacity to downvote, as well as the recipient of downvotes from others. This has provoked me to adopt enhanced counter strategies with the full awareness that my behavior is both unorthodox, and contrarian to the culture and preferred/espoused norms/mores of this site as a whole.

In particular, I've noticed that one contrarian comment, which directly contradicts a parent, and indeed violates the typical cultural views of the site as a whole, while remaining on-topic, maintaining valid points, and supporting evidence, receives way more attentive mileage, than any downvote. This is usually because those with vested interests in expressing a typical norm struggle deeply to contradict sound evidence and factual observations.

So, I've stopped maintaining normal accounts, stopped using accounts that have the ability to downvote, stopped downvoting, and instead downvote with words that actually explain my motivations for what would be a downvote, if I were the sort of person to actually resort to petty downvoting.

Instead of pining for the "privilege" of downvoting my peers, I simply unspool evermore single-use accounts and tell people exactly why I disagree with them, point-blank, and never look back, or care about the superficial shade of text coloring my comment, nor the meaningless negative number in a point system on an account that will never be used again.

Downvoters are really only silencing themselves, by refusing to go out on a limb and risk downvotes themselves, rather than express disagreement.

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HN traditionally had a "Don't downvote people solely because you disagree with them" policy. You are confusing HN with Reddit. HN never had such a policy, nor any, for that matter. pg specifically said before handing over the site that he didn't mind downvoting to disagree. I have seen no movement from new leadership on this; in fact, new leadership have doubled down on some of pg's worse calls. With the graying ou…

Fun fact: I find downvoting to be a completely worthless feature of this site for all of the reasons you've listed and more! I find it useless to be in possession of the capacity to downvote, as well as the recipient of downvotes from others. This has provoked me to adopt enhanced counter strategies with the full awareness that my behavior is both unorthodox, and contrarian to the culture and preferred/espoused norms…

Another key point: My contrarian remarks aren't made in such ways that would result in getting flagged to death or hellbanned. My goal is discussion, not shock value or being incendiary for the sake of receiving negative attention. Some things need to be said, and I'll be happy to oblige if no one else will.

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#184
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's a very good point. It was suggested by an acquaintance that I just throw a lit sparkler down the hole before entering, which _almost_ made sense -though if I ever do manage to find a pocket of CO then it's going to make one heck of a mess.... Davy Lamp time it is then -big flame == big trouble and time to leave. I might have to start taking a household CO detector with me (the cheap ones now even have a…

You know, if you're doing work, or going into enclosed spaces, you really should just get the best gas detector you can get your hands on. It's a lot better than dying. I worked for a short time at an installation that refurbished small oil rigs. It's about the worst kind of modern work environment: lots of poisonous substances (eg. heavy oil/crude leftovers), welding in closed spaces, tight crawlspaces and the whole…

Brilliant anecdotes; thank you. I didn't realise quite how seriously it was taken (multiple samples over extended periods, etc) in industry. Cyanide poisoning sounds horrific.

For the record I sit at a desk all day poking at computers -it's just occasionally I and some friends have the urge to go exploring WW2 structures or old railway tunnels. If I were doing anything commercially or even if I were doing it more often then proper air monitoring would be essential. At the moment we're more than happy to eyeball something (or stand at the entrance and check for a breeze) and just decide "nope -not worth the risk".

I'm also hyper aware that actually, we don't really know what the heck we're doing (even though I spend a lot of time reading up on how similar has gone wrong for other people); so discretion has to be the better part of valour. If anyone reading this happens to be based middle of the UK, has a better idea what they're doing than I do and wouldn't mind me tagging along to learn some new things, then please please please, PM me :)

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#185
BTW, thanks for putting me on track to notice one interesting aspect about H2S:

"In 2015, hydrogen sulfide under extremely high pressure (around 150 gigapascals) was found to undergo superconducting transition near 203K (-70 °C), the highest temperature superconductor known to date."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#186
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked into it in the past and keep looking at atleast a £500 cost -usually more if you want O2, CO, CO2, H25 (I think those were the ones I decided I was interested in).... and _then_ there's the certification cost, so I really can't justify it (though I'd love to). My friends dad used to be a safety inspector duwnt' pit in the 70's and he's been trying to convince me to get an old Davy Lamp and to just pay att…

Fun fact about CO, that may sometimes be overlooked: not only is it odourless and poisonous - but it's also highly flammable!

Enough so that you can actually run an automobile engine on CO.

Here in Finland, during second World War when petrol/gasoline was in very short supply, even army vehicles would run on CO gas. Petrol was only used for starting the engine.

Starting a truck involved first chopping little pieces of wood to a reactor attached to the car or lorry, lighting them and creating a fire with suitable under-supply of oxygen so that the reactor emits CO. When the gas is at right concentration to burn, start then engine with petrol and then switch to CO gas.

This is El Kamina, a modern hack made by the current Prime Minister in the country:

http://jalopnik.com/el-camino-driving-jalopnik-endorsed-bada...

Regarding its emissions, don't ask. Also, don't bother about burnout contests, it is not very powerful. But it runs on renewables.

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#187
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact about CO, that may sometimes be overlooked: not only is it odourless and poisonous - but it's also highly flammable!

Enough so that you can actually run an automobile engine on CO. Here in Finland, during second World War when petrol/gasoline was in very short supply, even army vehicles would run on CO gas. Petrol was only used for starting the engine. Starting a truck involved first chopping little pieces of wood to a reactor attached to the car or lorry, lighting them and creating a fire with suitable under-supply of oxygen so th…

It also saw residential use prior to the development of natural gas wells:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_manufactured_gas

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#188
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, if you're doing work, or going into enclosed spaces, you really should just get the best gas detector you can get your hands on. It's a lot better than dying. I worked for a short time at an installation that refurbished small oil rigs. It's about the worst kind of modern work environment: lots of poisonous substances (eg. heavy oil/crude leftovers), welding in closed spaces, tight crawlspaces and the whole…

Brilliant anecdotes; thank you. I didn't realise quite how seriously it was taken (multiple samples over extended periods, etc) in industry. Cyanide poisoning sounds horrific. For the record I sit at a desk all day poking at computers -it's just occasionally I and some friends have the urge to go exploring WW2 structures or old railway tunnels. If I were doing anything commercially or even if I were doing it more oft…

It so much more important to take this stuff seriously if you only do it occasionally and for fun/recreation! Suffocation is the least of your worries, both H2S and CO are poisonous. And you don't have a team standing by with with air tanks. So response time is likely to be closer to an hour, on the off chance that there's even anyone to call for help. Think about the kind of brain damage you're liable to suffer if you do survive such an ordeal.

A couple of gas meters (the reason to have two, in case it's no obvious, is to try and make sure at least one sounds an alarm in case of faulty equipment etc) - and an "active" monitor to someone outside (aka: a rope) is generally as good as you'll get. And a lot better than what most people do.

Don't become the next anecdote at a search and rescue seminar.

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#189
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brilliant anecdotes; thank you. I didn't realise quite how seriously it was taken (multiple samples over extended periods, etc) in industry. Cyanide poisoning sounds horrific. For the record I sit at a desk all day poking at computers -it's just occasionally I and some friends have the urge to go exploring WW2 structures or old railway tunnels. If I were doing anything commercially or even if I were doing it more oft…

It so much more important to take this stuff seriously if you only do it occasionally and for fun/recreation! Suffocation is the least of your worries, both H2S and CO are poisonous. And you don't have a team standing by with with air tanks. So response time is likely to be closer to an hour, on the off chance that there's even anyone to call for help. Think about the kind of brain damage you're liable to suffer if y…

I... umm... yeah. Those are all extremely good points. The idea of surviving with major brain damage is almost more scary than thinking I wouldn't come out at all. It also goes towards explaining why when I ask my friends for advice who do have industry experience, they're not willing to do more than tell me I'm an idiot and that if I want to do it safely then I just shouldn't do it.

I feel I should point out that I do try to be mindful not to become a statistic or anecdote. Apart from the obvious reasons, in 2015 it's hard enough to get away with having unsupervised, unstructured and unlitigated fun. If I do myself in through stupidity whilst exploring, climbing or gliding etc, then apart from anything else it's going to make it that much more difficult for anyone who comes after me. Imposing more restrictions or difficulty on a hobby I love is the last thing I want to be remembered for.

H2S, CO and O2 seem like the obvious gases to be mindful of; is there anything else you'd suggest looking for in an air monitor pr being especially wary of? Massive thanks for your time and knowledge :)

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#190
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It so much more important to take this stuff seriously if you only do it occasionally and for fun/recreation! Suffocation is the least of your worries, both H2S and CO are poisonous. And you don't have a team standing by with with air tanks. So response time is likely to be closer to an hour, on the off chance that there's even anyone to call for help. Think about the kind of brain damage you're liable to suffer if y…

I... umm... yeah. Those are all extremely good points. The idea of surviving with major brain damage is almost more scary than thinking I wouldn't come out at all. It also goes towards explaining why when I ask my friends for advice who do have industry experience, they're not willing to do more than tell me I'm an idiot and that if I want to do it safely then I just shouldn't do it. I feel I should point out that I…

I suppose there are other hydrocarbons to worry about (both naturally occurring from compost, and from leaking gas pipes/old tanks). Not so much because of suffocation (that's why you have the O2 gauge) but from the not blow up/be burned alive part. I suppose it depends a bit where you go exploring - AFAIK old coal mines can be dangerous wrt fires/explosions. It's a good reason to avoid open flame/non ex certified electronics, if you have reason to suspect an explosive atmosphere. Fires can be dangerous just by binding oxygen - in addition to the more obvious danger.

I think the main thing is to realize that enclosed spaces can be really dangerous. Farmers die in grain/grass silos every year. And people die from CO poisoning from using coal as heat-sources indoors, or just from theoretically sound, but flawed fire based heating solutions (eg: paraffin/diesel/oil heaters).

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