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Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

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Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that there isn't a lot of evidence about whether money influences elections. But ultimately it doesn't matter whether money influences elections. What is more important is whether elected officials believe money is influential in elections, and I think this is trivially true. What are your fears if "The Democracy is for People Amendment" passed? Are you worried that the congress would limit political spe…

It doesn't separate political spending from political speech at all .

The only thing it authorizes is limits on "the raising and spending of money ... to influence elections", it doesn't address speech as distinct from raising and spending money at all. So it seems to separate them quite distinctly.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#242
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they sortof suck, but we're 20T in the hole and 9% of the federal budget goes to debt service. That sucks more! When do the rabble on the right who instigate these debt showdowns get to be the righteous good guys instead of demons? Do we really need to spiral down to some catastrophe before we wake up and make a change here? It's the banksters accumulating most of the power with this debt here. I suspect the le…

Because a debt showdown would do FAR more damage to the economy than debt servicing. Default due to petulance is NOT appropriate behavior for the most important currency in the world. The showdowns aren't policy, they're grandstanding. I don't like politicians playing chicken with the global economy because they find some things distasteful. If they cared that much about debt, they could actually, you know, raise tax…

I never know if responses like yours are the political party-line machined outrage response or what you truly believe. If you're just spouting some party line, then happily ignore the following and get back to sleep - outrage successful.

But your last sentence makes me think you actually believe, so I'm going to burn some time on you and perhaps get past the emotion here.

Like you said, just tax everyone more! A 100% tax on earnings is reasonable in some cases; Norway does it, just tax like madmen until the debt is paid.

Well, you could do that, you could even seize everyone's property to pay down the debt, (and I don't see why that isn't a reasonable proposal either.)

The problem with that plan is, even if you did those things, the growth in social security and Medicare is too fast for even asset seizure to catch. All these trust funds "running out of money" you hear about are simply the growth of those programs outstripping the IOU's owed AND the amount congress allocates extra for additional growth. You'll get to a point where the growth spirals as lives are extended, etc

Debt is the place that you can start to install some controls. That is why our media and congress always describe it as a "showdown" or "battle". The battle is quite lopsided because the vast majority of politicians in all parties don't want to touch this and hate any boat rocking, and there's a lot of lobbyists to pay back.

Can you honestly tell me what the spending priorities are for congress? There are none! Everything is important, and all budgets for every department may only grow based on their rules for baseline budgeting in the face of increasing divides between parties and people in government - in other words, the stalemate we've seen over the past 18 years results in budgets each year that are simply last year's budget + 5% with occasional huge jumps in new spending whenever a crisis arises and everyone temporarily agrees to authorize new spending.

As I said, debt is the place to begin the place to begin debate about our spending priorities. Why? Because any new debt must be _authorized_, hence voted on. It's annoying to confront tough issues! Hence all the acrimony.

Okay, so just look at your life, your security. You think the system we have here is stable? Its so fragile and full of corruption, look at what happened in 07-08 with the fraudulent loan scams the big banks were running. And congress is the flashpoint for these crises every time. So, I'm agreeing with you that there is potential for damage if we try to rein in the spending and get some priorities.

What's the alternative that you are suggesting? Don't deal with it, let the instabilities grow, and eventually have an unmanaged collapse. Do you disagree?

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#243
post #42

I'm not a citizen of the U.S. so maybe I'm missing something. Why is he not just switching to the Republican party? What's this nonsense about his ideals being more in line with the democrats? I thought the Republicans were all about the founding fathers and making sure the United States are not ruled by the old-rich?

Lessig is a member of the liberal elite. He's a Harvard professor with multiple advanced degrees, writes books and gives speeches with big words in them for academic audiences, advocates pro-consumer anti-business IP policy, and endorsed Obama. That is emphatically not a recipe for being taken seriously by the Republican party. A successful Republican candidate is the kind of guy a redneck feels he could have a beer…

And yet the second place Republican candidate is an extremely well educated and successful neurosurgeon? Sounds like rednecks aren't the ones with frothing hatered

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#244
post #42

I'm not a citizen of the U.S. so maybe I'm missing something. Why is he not just switching to the Republican party? What's this nonsense about his ideals being more in line with the democrats? I thought the Republicans were all about the founding fathers and making sure the United States are not ruled by the old-rich?

> I'm not a citizen of the U.S. so maybe I'm missing something.

Quite a bit.

> Why is he not just switching to the Republican party? What's this nonsense about his ideals being more in line with the democrats?

The "nonsense" is the truth; there's actually considerable overlap between the positions Lessig took on issues and those taken by other notable Democrats, including Democratic candidates (most particularly, on Lessig's central issues, Sen. Sanders), with differences largely in the relative priority between issues rather than the positions on major issues. You don't see the same overlap between Lessig's positions and Republican positions (this became even more clear after he adopted a more full platform.)

> thought the Republicans were all about the founding fathers and making sure the United States are not ruled by the old-rich?

You need to look beyond the surface rhetoric at substantive policy positions to even begin to understand where the parties lie and why Lessig might feel more comfortable with the Democrats.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#245
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a debt showdown would do FAR more damage to the economy than debt servicing. Default due to petulance is NOT appropriate behavior for the most important currency in the world. The showdowns aren't policy, they're grandstanding. I don't like politicians playing chicken with the global economy because they find some things distasteful. If they cared that much about debt, they could actually, you know, raise tax…

I never know if responses like yours are the political party-line machined outrage response or what you truly believe. If you're just spouting some party line, then happily ignore the following and get back to sleep - outrage successful. But your last sentence makes me think you actually believe, so I'm going to burn some time on you and perhaps get past the emotion here. Like you said, just tax everyone more! A 100%…

If one party says 2+2=4 and the other says 2+2=17, then yes, I'm spouting party line. The GOP absolutely Will. Not. Budge. on raising taxes as a revenue generator. Therefore, they are not truly serious about the deficit. They will cut spending - only in places they don't like - but they won't increase revenue. So all this stuff about the debt ceiling? That's just playing to the cheap seats. It's grandstanding, and it's irresponsible.

That said, there's nothing inherently wrong with running a deficit, as long as the debt can be serviced without breakdown (which is currently and has always been the case). Moreover, there's a strong argument that the federal government must run a deficit, for the sake of the stability of capital markets. In times of crisis, investors need to be able to shift their capital into low-risk securities, and US treasury bonds are the lowest risk reasonably liquid investment there is. Otherwise, everyone would be stuck during whatever the next crisis is, whether it's real estate or the stock market or whatever.

Social Security and Medicare are not endlessly growing monsters that engulf the universe. They represent a certain percentage of the population (retirees), and no more than that. As long as the working population can generate enough revenue to keep them going (and they can), it will work forever.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#246
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never know if responses like yours are the political party-line machined outrage response or what you truly believe. If you're just spouting some party line, then happily ignore the following and get back to sleep - outrage successful. But your last sentence makes me think you actually believe, so I'm going to burn some time on you and perhaps get past the emotion here. Like you said, just tax everyone more! A 100%…

If one party says 2+2=4 and the other says 2+2=17, then yes, I'm spouting party line. The GOP absolutely Will. Not. Budge. on raising taxes as a revenue generator. Therefore, they are not truly serious about the deficit. They will cut spending - only in places they don't like - but they won't increase revenue. So all this stuff about the debt ceiling? That's just playing to the cheap seats. It's grandstanding, and it…

You WERE just towing the party line? Huh.

Well, you've convinced me. Clearly you've reflected a lot on this. Everything IS awesome except for Republicans and tax rates. Go Bernie in 2016!

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