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Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

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Re: Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that safely fracturing when struck by a human is the safety function referred to in the linked article - once a person hits the windshield, the primary safety mechanisms (seatbelts, airbags, and structural integrity of the car) have already failed, so whatever happens at the windshield will make little difference. What the article says is that the safety role of a windshield (besides not breaking into d…

Yes, but your analysis discounts vehicles striking pedestrians and cyclists.

Well, no my analysis points out that the main safety purpose of windshield glass is to protect the structural integrity of the occupant cage -- it can't both protect against outside impact and penetration while also being a soft cushion for peoples heads to impact.

Re: Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

#52
post #37
post #20

To nitpick, the article uses the words 'tough', 'hard' and 'rigid' to describe this glass, though those all mean different things. I'd suggest that all glass is both hard and rigid, so presumably 'tough' is what they're going for. If so, the glass should be able to withstand a large tensile force without fracture or permanent deformation. 'unbreakable' is also a little disingenuous. Everything is breakable, given a b…

Don't think it's nitpicking at all. I came away unsure whether the new material is hard (scratch resistant) or tough (won't shatter when dropped). An article about a new material that doesn't make the distinction fails fundamentally.

You might find it interesting that toughness and "won't shatter when dropped" are different things.

Toughness(G) = slowly absorb energy without fracture.

Shattering is more dependable of:

Fracture toughness(Kc) = (E*G)^0,5

Where E = modulus. That explains why plastics with low E shatter easily while being tough. Metals have additional hardening methods that allow them to go beyond this rule.

PS. Your knowledge on the subject is already what I'd wish laymen had. So I really don't mean any offense.

Re: Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

#53
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your windshield is safety glass, so consideration must be given for the need to dissipate energy when a human head collides with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield#Safety Trivia: A famous lawsuit about the safety of windshield glass was the _Pane_ vs. Ford case in 1917

I don't think that safely fracturing when struck by a human is the safety function referred to in the linked article - once a person hits the windshield, the primary safety mechanisms (seatbelts, airbags, and structural integrity of the car) have already failed, so whatever happens at the windshield will make little difference. What the article says is that the safety role of a windshield (besides not breaking into d…

Windshields are laminated safety glass, which it sounds like you might be confusing with tempered safety glass. There's a huge difference in how those break.

Laminated glass remains in one solid mass held together by the plastic sheet in the middle, while tempered glass explodes into tiny pieces that are sharp but not overly harmful. Ordinary annealed glass breaks into long, dagger-like pieces that are dangerously sharp, which is why it's tempered or laminated into safety glass.

So the windshield is meant not to break apart, because it's laminated rather than tempered. The polymer lining between the lites of glass prevents it from scattering and causes it to be quite impact resistant. [1] Conversely, you'd really hate to have tempered glass as your windshield, if it broke the entire thing would just pop into tiny pieces that would get into your eyes. If a rock hit hard enough to break a hypothetical tempered windshield, the parts that didn't pop would be filled with cracks and impossible to see through due to being white from being filled with tiny cracks, though you could just bat them out of the way as any parts were partially intact would simply crumble when moved.

The side windows are tempered, incidentally. If you've ever broken a side window, you know what I mean about the whole thing just exploding. [2] If you manage to pop it, the entire window will just fall apart easily, which might be good if you had to leave from the window of a car. It can cause small cuts and scratches and such, but it's not terribly dangerous unless it gets in your eyes, even if, say, a sheet of 3mm, 33 1/4 x 73 1/4 inch glass breaks while you're holding it. [3] It's no fun, but when you compare it to the fact that annealed glass accidents have been fatal, it's not so bad. [4] Yes, I used to work for a glass factory, so when I say that I've seen hundreds of tons of broken glass, the word 'tons' should be understood in the literal, 2,000 lbs sense of the word.

[1] Source: Determined empirically by beating on damaged pieces of it with a shovel, when said pieces wouldn't fit into the dumpster. Or you can read this, whatever: http://sem-proceedings.com/10f/sem.org-IMPLAST-2010-SEM-Fall...

[2] See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPwaq_6aXbo This normally happens only if hit from the corner or an edge, but it can happen just randomly. We usually saw this in winter, but only a few times a year, meaning there was at most about a 1 in 10,000 chance of spontaneous breakage in my experience and probably significantly less based on the average daily volume numbers I remember. When there's something containing the edge of tempered, it sometimes just takes on a white, broken look due to all the cracks, but crumbles to the touch. It tends to just disintegrate like in the video most of the time, though.

[3] Source: Direct, personal experience on multiple occasions for that very size and many others. This is an every-day kind of thing and causes no injury to someone with proper safety gear.

[4] Source: I'm directly aware of at least one such accident where someone was found dead after having their neck cut when attempting to dispose of a cracked sheet. I also provided first aid to someone who could've lost a hand to injury.

Re: Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but your analysis discounts vehicles striking pedestrians and cyclists.

Well, no my analysis points out that the main safety purpose of windshield glass is to protect the structural integrity of the occupant cage -- it can't both protect against outside impact and penetration while also being a soft cushion for peoples heads to impact.

A window could give way in either direction without being penetrated, for example by stretching out and permanently deforming. Risk for people inside is that it would give too much way, so that that pole hits your head.

Re: Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

#55
post #44

Finally, we can keep humpback whales in our starships!

Serious question, couldn't they have just used steel walls and grabbed the whales no problem?

I see no reason that they needed to be able to see through the walls and look at the Wales inside.

Re: Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

#56

Am I being overly cynical when I interpret: “We will establish a way to mass-produce the new material shortly ... We are looking to commercialize the technique within five years.” as "We have no clue how to mass-produce this but hope we can figure it out in five years if someone gives us money"? It's hard to imagine how a gas-based "containerless processing system" will lend itself to producing the thin, uniform shee…

Indeed. A method of making glass via a containerless processing system that I am aware of, is aerodynamic levitation, wherein a ball of starting material is suspended in a stream of gas, such as Ar, and heated by lasers. This method is used in systems that tend to crystallise rapidly rather than quench to a nice glass, since the thermal mass of the sample is very small and you can take all the heat away instantly by tunring off the laser. Samples prepared by such a method are typically 100s to 1000s of microns in diameter. I would be very interested to hear how they would scale this method to industrial production, if aerodynamic levitation is how they made their glass.

Re: Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

#59
post #58

Please start with the iphone. Damn thing shatters if I look at it funny.

Man, I've never had a problem with a broken iPhone screen. I worked for months on a pretty large construction site breaking up concrete while dropping my phone fairly regularly and it's still aces.

Obviously a stronger screen would be great, but a case does wonders if you want a functioning phone for now.

Re: Scientists develop 'unbreakable' glass almost as tough as steel

#60
post #58

Please start with the iphone. Damn thing shatters if I look at it funny.

Man, I've never had a problem with a broken iPhone screen. I worked for months on a pretty large construction site breaking up concrete while dropping my phone fairly regularly and it's still aces. Obviously a stronger screen would be great, but a case does wonders if you want a functioning phone for now.

yup, hindsight...

I never had a problem with a phone screen breaking until the 6 plus. My OnePlus is bulletproof.

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