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Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

independent.co.uk

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Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#101

Post by zanny »

moonchrome wrote: post #81
zanny wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tobacco and alcohol are legal and used because they were staples of the founding of the US. Tobacco was one of the chief exports of the colonies and the new US for centuries and made a lot of people rich and even more people happy. Alcohol is legal in almost every country on Earth because you can make it out of almost everything. What might end up happening is regional fermentation variants are stigmatized. Cannibis…

>cocaine are probably the only outstandingly dangerous ones due to immediate bodily effects Is that true about ? I "know" that heroin ends up causing a physical addiction + all the risks with the way it's used but I was under the impression that cocaine was in the same category as speed/extasy in terms of downsides.

Just quoting wikipedia on this one, but:

Cocaine addiction occurs through accumbal ΔFosB overexpression, which arises through transcriptional regulation and epigenetic remodeling of the nucleus accumbens.

It is definitely physically addictive, and alters brain chemistry through long term use. It also causes accelerated heart rate.

I'll give its not nearly as bad as tobacco, but it is in a league above psychedelics.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#102

Post by gotchange »

iamcurious wrote: post #26

It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…

> Which means a very profitable tax free market

That's totally untrue. Drug lords still have to contend with law enforcement raids and busts or bribing govt officials for their goods and products to "reach the consumer" constituting in effect a tax on their operations.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#103

Post by [deleted] »

gearoidoc wrote: post #19
bovermyer wrote: post #3

Ignoring the quality of the article, I am struck by one thing. Why has Ireland all of a sudden taken such a progressive shift? First national recognition of gay marriage, now this? I'm loving it, wherever it came from.

Irishman here - living in Canada nearly two years now. It's not very sudden to be honest - changes like the Marriage Equality Act have been wanted by a lot of people for a long time. The criminalisation of drug use clearly doesnt work the entire world over. In Ireland, especially Dublin, it's not unusual to see a heroin addict shooting up on public transport. I honestly feel that Irish people are in general a fairly…

[deleted]

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#104

Post by lucaspiller »

Although I'm generally for legalising drugs, in the short term my concern is this is going just increase petty crime. As gearoidoc said in another comment:

> In Ireland, especially Dublin, it's not unusual to see a heroin addict shooting up on public transport.

I lived in Dublin city (2 and 1) a few years ago and it's not exactly the safest place. Even in the middle of the day, in the highstreet, I've seen fights between people. This is going to come across as "drugs are ok" and more people will get into them, which will lead to higher petty crime rates.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#105

Post by lucaspiller »

roymurdock wrote: post #12
bovermyer wrote: post #3

Ignoring the quality of the article, I am struck by one thing. Why has Ireland all of a sudden taken such a progressive shift? First national recognition of gay marriage, now this? I'm loving it, wherever it came from.

A very random and uninformed guess - A lot of tech companies have opened up offices in Ireland (ostensibly due to tax laws) and have started to attract young, progressive talent into the country. This investment has helped the economy and raised the standard of living in Ireland, so less people are concerned with enforcing conservative/religion-based regulation. This article has some better stats/anecdotes: http://ww…

Unless you are Google size the tax laws don't really make any difference, even then you only need to have a company registered there, you don't need an office full of techies.

Dublin is good for tech companies as it's easy to do business and get investment, English is the main language, there is good internet [0], you can quickly get to central Europe (thanks Ryanair), and compared to London the cost of living is a lot lower. It's just a shame about the weather...

[0] Unless you are stuck in a building only served by Eircom.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#106

Post by moonchrome »

zanny wrote: post #101
moonchrome wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>cocaine are probably the only outstandingly dangerous ones due to immediate bodily effects Is that true about ? I "know" that heroin ends up causing a physical addiction + all the risks with the way it's used but I was under the impression that cocaine was in the same category as speed/extasy in terms of downsides.

Just quoting wikipedia on this one, but: Cocaine addiction occurs through accumbal ΔFosB overexpression, which arises through transcriptional regulation and epigenetic remodeling of the nucleus accumbens. It is definitely physically addictive, and alters brain chemistry through long term use. It also causes accelerated heart rate. I'll give its not nearly as bad as tobacco, but it is in a league above psychedelics.

Sure but MDMA/meth aren't psychedelics either but you made a distinction between them so I was curious why. From my high school experiences I would put them in the same league (although I know very little about the science behind them they are all recreational party drugs, former being a lot cheaper than the latter)

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#107

Post by vixen99 »

andyl wrote: post #50

A small step to remove the fetters of intolerance. But if legalizing small amounts is good, then legalizing large amounts is better. Nobody has the right to limit my ability to take large amounts of drugs - that's my personal business.

Yes they do and no it isn't unless of course you're a hermit living in isolation. For anyone else it's virtually impossible to ensure you (let's go with your example) take all the consequences of your actions as you must if you go along with the dictum 'do as you like if it doesn't affect others'. As a society we curtail many freedoms. Necrophilia hurts no one so should it be legal? Suppose millions decide it's a desirable activity. Do we then decriminalize it?

BTW I wonder if Ireland is going to permit industrial production of the desired drugs? As I understand it, the 'small step' as you call it is akin to legalizing the possession of stolen goods.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#108

Post by vixen99 »

bovermyer wrote: post #3

Ignoring the quality of the article, I am struck by one thing. Why has Ireland all of a sudden taken such a progressive shift? First national recognition of gay marriage, now this? I'm loving it, wherever it came from.

The word 'progressive' has been hijacked and used to suggest the existence of valid arguments prior to their serious examination. Time we junked it.

Of course the same game can be played by pointing out that progressive diseases inevitably lead to a fatal outcome.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#109

Post by lorenzhs »

vixen99 wrote: post #108
bovermyer wrote: post #3

Ignoring the quality of the article, I am struck by one thing. Why has Ireland all of a sudden taken such a progressive shift? First national recognition of gay marriage, now this? I'm loving it, wherever it came from.

The word 'progressive' has been hijacked and used to suggest the existence of valid arguments prior to their serious examination. Time we junked it. Of course the same game can be played by pointing out that progressive diseases inevitably lead to a fatal outcome.

No, it has not been hijacked - it has two meanings. See, for example, https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/learner/progre... or consult your favourite dictionary.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#110

Post by blumkvist »

werber wrote: post #58
hoodoof wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth junkies go on violent psychotic rampages killing and injuring other people and have no other thought in their brains except to get more meth. When I read in the newspaper about someone murdering their family I expect, and often find either a statement or suggestion that the perpetrator was using meth. Heroin junkies go to sleep and are making a poor health choice but it is possible with clean heroin to lead a fu…

Meth and Heroin addicts tend to be poorer and prone to criminal activity, than pharmaceutical amphetamine and opiate users. Additionally, adverse reactions, are more likely when the drug is unregulated.

Do you know how much 1g of heroin cost?
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