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Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

independent.co.uk

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Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#91

Post by oxide »

iamcurious wrote: post #26

It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…

I disagree that it's half-baked, in fact this is a huge victory. A step in the right direction, indeed. Now, if only we can keep from going two steps back.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#92

Post by bcook »

hoodoof wrote: post #89
bcook wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure? Overdoses happen even with pure heroin. Also, I assumed "citation" would infer that a reputable book or scholarly white paper should be referenced, not a very short newspaper article. Though, we both seem to be unwavering in our views, so I am cool with stopping this back and forth. :)

>> How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure I didn't say that. My point was that people can lead functional lives on heroin with families and jobs. If the heroin is impure, laced with dangerous chemicals or of unknown strength then the cutting agents can harm people or they may overdose. Clean heroin is free of harmful cutting agents, of known purity and not laced with ot…

I mock "clean heroin" because at it's purest, it is still the most harmful drug. More harmful than meth, crack, cocaine, etc, etc.

I cited Wikipedia.

You have still cited nothing of worth.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#93

Post by hoodoof »

bcook wrote: post #92
hoodoof wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> How is that a citation proving that heroin is controllable if only the heroin was pure I didn't say that. My point was that people can lead functional lives on heroin with families and jobs. If the heroin is impure, laced with dangerous chemicals or of unknown strength then the cutting agents can harm people or they may overdose. Clean heroin is free of harmful cutting agents, of known purity and not laced with ot…

I mock "clean heroin" because at it's purest, it is still the most harmful drug. More harmful than meth, crack, cocaine, etc, etc. I cited Wikipedia. You have still cited nothing of worth.

Can you compare psychotic violence of heroin addicts versus meth addicts?

That's what I mean by harmful. Meth addicts are psychotically violent and are responsible for countless murders and attacks.

Heroin addicts get smacked out and unconscious. Perhaps dangerous to themselves.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#94

Post by bcook »

hoodoof wrote: post #93
bcook wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mock "clean heroin" because at it's purest, it is still the most harmful drug. More harmful than meth, crack, cocaine, etc, etc. I cited Wikipedia. You have still cited nothing of worth.

Can you compare psychotic violence of heroin addicts versus meth addicts? That's what I mean by harmful. Meth addicts are psychotically violent and are responsible for countless murders and attacks. Heroin addicts get smacked out and unconscious. Perhaps dangerous to themselves.

Go to an NA meeting (non-addicts can go, just be courteous) or read some white papers about drug use.

You are avoiding, or simply ignorant of, many aspects of drug addiction.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#95

Post by ryanlol »

bcook wrote: post #85
aianus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. There are countless rock stars, for example, that maintained families and highly successful careers while regularly using heroin. > Heroin addiction is the problem, not the adulterants, so purity is unimportant. Heroin addictio…

Anecdotes are not a valid citation. Heroin is the most harmful drug, statistically, according to numerous studies.

Not heroin, but a completely unknown substance presented as heroin that probably consists of around 30% heroin.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#96

Post by yason »

hodder wrote: post #64
icanhackit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. We all want the revolution overnight but it takes careful and calculated steps to make progress. Consider Representative Barney Frank (D-MA) when accosted by a Republican Rep who claimed the States' Rights to Medical Marijuana Act was a sly step towards the process of legalizing marijuana outright. Barney's (paraphrased) answer: Yep, you got me. That is ou…

"And of course once you've legalized the selling of marijuana, you're potentially openings the doors for other substances" I agree you've got to start somewhere. I find the argument that marijuana is a door opener to other substances is flawed though. If pot didn't exist, would the same argument be made for liquor stores, tobacco sales, coffee shops, red bulls at 7/11, cough medicine at Walmart etc? Or is it just bec…

I think the only hint of truth in gateway drug theory is that once you're consuming something that's illegal you are more likely to end up dealing with people who are also selling other illegal drugs which, if you're into that sort of thing, makes it easier to experiment with new drugs.

If alcohol was illegal and thus only sold by traffickers who also happen to stock cocaine, the same would equally apply. It's more about the markets rather than the substance.

Of course, the vast majority of pot is either homegrown or, if commercially produced, supplied into a chain of friends by someone who knows someone who knows someone. That's how I guess pot is commonly bought: "Hey, you had this friend of yours who uses pot, I wonder if he'd sell me a bit, too?"

The exposure to other drugs, for the average pot smoker, is very negligible in practice even if the original source is in the drug business that operates on the more serious side.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#97

Post by pjc50 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #46
iamcurious wrote: post #26

It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…

I agree with you but remember that Ireland and the UK are islands, which immediately puts them in a better position to deal with smuggling compared to countries that share long land borders. I think this is why island nations are generally a bit more conservative - it's much more practical to control imports.

Coastline is no easier to police and allows transit at any point. Cornwall practically counts pre-20th-c smuggling as a traditional heritage industry.

Although I think in practice most drugs come by air like in the rest of the world.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#98

Post by anigbrowl »

pjc50 wrote: post #97
anigbrowl wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you but remember that Ireland and the UK are islands, which immediately puts them in a better position to deal with smuggling compared to countries that share long land borders. I think this is why island nations are generally a bit more conservative - it's much more practical to control imports.

Coastline is no easier to police and allows transit at any point. Cornwall practically counts pre-20th-c smuggling as a traditional heritage industry. Although I think in practice most drugs come by air like in the rest of the world.

It's doable, but it's not that easy. If coastline allowed transit at any point then we wouldn't rely so heavily on harbors...but I don't want to bore you with maritime stories. Put it this way, if you want to smuggle onto an island you need to do at least a bit of advance planning and figure out who you're going to have to pay, or how much risk you will tolerate if you own a boat or a plane. The same is true of smuggling by car or truck on a continent, but that's a journey you can generally undertake a lot more casually than a boat or plane trip.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#99

Post by bcook »

ryanlol wrote: post #95
bcook wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotes are not a valid citation. Heroin is the most harmful drug, statistically, according to numerous studies.

Not heroin, but a completely unknown substance presented as heroin that probably consists of around 30% heroin.

Heroin addiction is one of the most harmful documented drug-addictions. The need for heroin, physically and psychologically, is the driving force behind the social and personal damage attributed to heroin.

People do not get addicted to non-narcotic adulterants and become prostitutes. A cutting agent like caffeine or sugar is probably the safest ingredient...

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#100

Post by secfirstmd »

lucideer wrote: post #13
bovermyer wrote: post #3

Ignoring the quality of the article, I am struck by one thing. Why has Ireland all of a sudden taken such a progressive shift? First national recognition of gay marriage, now this? I'm loving it, wherever it came from.

Not to take away from either positive story - both are really fantastic - but I think they're both isolated events, with slightly different causes, and sadly don't really represent a paradigm shift. The national recognition of gay marriage was a worldwide story largely because it was a popular vote. Other - perhaps more generally progressive - countries had already legislated for it without needing that public vote.…

"extremely conservative"?

I would have to challenge that. Certainly on a global scale (versus US, UK, EU etc), the current government is not that extreme.

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