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Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

independent.co.uk

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Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#31

Post by gearoidoc »

roymurdock wrote: post #22
lucideer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd really love if this were the case, but sadly it really isn't. The affect of US tech companies coming here has largely been a small-scale version of Palo Alto-esque gentrification of a small area of Dublin (docklands) and any improvements in standard of living being limited to a small white male tech elite. Overall poverty is up (we're dealing with a very serious recent homelessness crisis) and average standards o…

Thanks for the inside perspective - hard to get a real sense of how a country is doing from GDP/economic indicators. Wishful thinking on my part that tech wealth would trickle down more effectively in Ireland than in the US. On the homelessness crisis: Amazing that housing prices in Dublin have jumped up 22.3% YoY. [1] What else do you see contributing to the rise in poverty/homelessness and the decline in living sta…

Dublin is a different animal than the rest of Ireland because the country is very centralised there (despite some efforts to combat this).

It would like measuring the average house price in the US by just measuring the BA.

I can buy a house in my hometown which is well serviced by schools and more than the essentials for about €150k.

The one thing that Ireland gets right is access to 3rd level education. I'm constantly floored by the amount of debt that students in North American and UK (or wherever else) pile up getting educated. I will concede that their standard of education is probably higher but, personal experience, I see very little difference in the average standard of graduate produced.

Coming from a working class background, I was lucky enough to be on the grant system so would have received about €3.5k a year to attend college - it wasn't huge and I obviously had to work part time but it certainly helped.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to arrive at is that the best way for a society to progress is via education and I think we're doing good (though it could be much better) at this right now.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#32

Post by Geekette »

Very interesting news! I wouldn't have expected Ireland to be on this forefront. When I got to the paragraph below, I also couldn't help wondering which nation that was:

"His comments follow a leaked report from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, appearing to call for a worldwide decriminalisation on 19 October. The report was reportedly withdrawn after at least one nation put pressure on the international body to bury the findings of Dr Monica Beg, chief of the HIV/AIDs section of the UNODC in Vienna."

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#33

Post by seanieb »

iamcurious wrote: post #26

It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…

Far from half baked (theres a pun here if I look hard enough), Portugal stepped up and did the experiment already. And it worked.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#34

Post by bmelton »

degenerate wrote: post #8
anigbrowl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are quoting the minister, whose remarks form the only basis for the story. No legislation or formal rules have been published yet, so there's no objective basis for describing the proposal. The use of quotation marks is entirely appropriate and not crappy at all.

The crappy part is how the journal author tacked " for personal use " onto the title to make it sound like a move to condone hard drug use, when in fact the movement is just the opposite - to help addicts get clean instead of giving them criminal records. So it's crappy journalism, but for a different reason.

More likely, "for personal use" means that they've intimated that only a small amount of marijuana will be forgiven in the decriminalization process.

We have the same caveat in Maryland, which decriminalizes "personal use amounts". "Personal use" in our case is "up to 10 grams" of marijuana, and anything above that would be considered "for distribution", which is still criminal, and of course still retains the full weight of law previously associated.

On top of that, it's worth pointing out the obvious -- decriminalization is not legalization -- it's still "against the law", and is punishable (in Maryland) by fines that raise progressively each time you're caught. Moreover, while the material good itself might be decriminalized, no such decriminalization applies to paraphernalia. To that end, 9 grams of marijuana are mere citations, but a trace amount of marijuana in a pipe is still a criminal offense.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#35

Post by maccard »

gearoidoc wrote: post #31
roymurdock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the inside perspective - hard to get a real sense of how a country is doing from GDP/economic indicators. Wishful thinking on my part that tech wealth would trickle down more effectively in Ireland than in the US. On the homelessness crisis: Amazing that housing prices in Dublin have jumped up 22.3% YoY. [1] What else do you see contributing to the rise in poverty/homelessness and the decline in living sta…

Dublin is a different animal than the rest of Ireland because the country is very centralised there (despite some efforts to combat this). It would like measuring the average house price in the US by just measuring the BA. I can buy a house in my hometown which is well serviced by schools and more than the essentials for about €150k. The one thing that Ireland gets right is access to 3rd level education. I'm constant…

Despite there not being any fees in IrelNd, you have to pay a student contribution fee (which as a grant receiver you were exempt from) which is currently 3.5k/year and set to continue rising. Really the grant gives you more like 7k/yr as you don't have to pay that fee (which had to be paid up front in one lump sun)

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#36

Post by gearoidoc »

Geekette wrote: post #32

Very interesting news! I wouldn't have expected Ireland to be on this forefront. When I got to the paragraph below, I also couldn't help wondering which nation that was: "His comments follow a leaked report from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, appearing to call for a worldwide decriminalisation on 19 October. The report was reportedly withdrawn after at least one nation put pressure on the international…

Curious as to why you "wouldn't have expected Ireland to be on this forefront".

Not trying to sound accusatory - just genuinely curious on the perception.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#37

Post by DanBC »

gearoidoc wrote: post #36
Geekette wrote: post #32

Very interesting news! I wouldn't have expected Ireland to be on this forefront. When I got to the paragraph below, I also couldn't help wondering which nation that was: "His comments follow a leaked report from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, appearing to call for a worldwide decriminalisation on 19 October. The report was reportedly withdrawn after at least one nation put pressure on the international…

Curious as to why you "wouldn't have expected Ireland to be on this forefront". Not trying to sound accusatory - just genuinely curious on the perception.

Stuff like this (2014) http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/17/ireland-woman-f...

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#38

Post by rwmj »

seanieb wrote: post #33
iamcurious wrote: post #26

It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…

Far from half baked (theres a pun here if I look hard enough), Portugal stepped up and did the experiment already. And it worked.

The OP's point is that decriminalization leaves the market, the money and the tax revenue with the criminals. As a taxpayer, I want a fair proportion of the money to go to the government, and only full legalization and regulation does that.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#39

Post by stephengillie »

rwmj wrote: post #38
seanieb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far from half baked (theres a pun here if I look hard enough), Portugal stepped up and did the experiment already. And it worked.

The OP's point is that decriminalization leaves the market, the money and the tax revenue with the criminals. As a taxpayer, I want a fair proportion of the money to go to the government, and only full legalization and regulation does that.

But first we have to mollify the masses that the decades of War-On-Drugs FUD is untrue. Show them that drug users are fellow humans, and easier access to the tools they use to generate happiness isn't going to cause rioting on the streets.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#40

Post by Broken_Hippo »

iamcurious wrote: post #26

It is a step in the right direction, but it still half-baked. Without decriminalizing production as well, they are maintaining a monopoly for those that works outside of the law. Which means a very profitable tax free market that has to recreate all of the state features like physical safety and insurance policies from scratch. Every nation that forbids something that is in demand, is gestating its own competition. T…

Oddly, I was talking to a man in Amsterdam about half-baked laws such as that. Making as much of the process transparent as possible means there is more likely to be "safe" products, comparatively, and legalisation with controls seems to be the way to go so far.
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