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Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

energyrealityproject.com

41–50 of 393 posts

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#41

1 cm3 of water weighs a lot more than 1 gram ?? From a quick skim through, many of his calcs seem to be based on this i.e. major error.

The density of water is 1000 kg/m^3 at 4 degrees C. [1]

1000 kg/m^3 * (1000 g / kg) * (1m / 100cm)^3 = 1 g/cm^3.

1 cc of water weighs one gram.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=density+of+water+at+4+c

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#42
post #21

I am not reflexively anti-nuclear. However, I have never heard a satisfactory answer to the simple question: "How do we store nuclear waste safely?"

By not hiding it away, but using warehouses that are actively staffed just like the plant that made the waste. Of course these facilities should be secure installations. But the root of the problem is not wanted to actively take ownership responsibility for the waste. I imagine every major city having its secure storage installation. Consider the scale of waste generated as well. All the waste used to power a life of…

The complex "social" side of the problem (for example, the vast amount of waste produced by the manufacture of nuclear warheads during the Cold War) means that it is not easily solved. There's a documentary film coming out about this by Peter Galison and Rob Moss. http://containmentmovie.com/

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#43
post #22

1 cm3 of water weighs a lot more than 1 gram ?? From a quick skim through, many of his calcs seem to be based on this i.e. major error.

The weight of one cubic centimeter of water is in fact one gram. By definition.

Only at one specific temperature (4 degrees C).

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#44
post #34

I absolutely agree that nuclear is our best option as long as the reactor and the waste is located in your backyard.

They aren't nearly as dangerous as the popular opinion would have you believe. There has been only a single incident that I'm aware of (Chernobyl), all others were near incidents (Three Mile Island, Japan, etc...). In fact, the technology and safety has come a long way since the 60's. Most US Navy ships are nuclear powered, and have not had incidents (and these are designed to go to war and survive). Japan was hit by…

> They aren't nearly as dangerous as the popular opinion would have you believe.

Great! I'm glad that you are volunteering your backyard as the storage facility :)

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#45
Actually, renewable energy is, when you actually run the numbers in a sensible way, pretty cost effective: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775312... - this finds that with 90% solar/wind and modest amounts of storage, electricity would be cheaper in 2030 than it is today, and that the cheapest option is actually a vast overcapacity. There are plenty of flaws with that article, but still less than this post.

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone brushes over that, the billions of dollars to build a plant, and the ~10 year construction time. Any nuclear power plant that has construction started today won't be cost competitive with renewables when it comes online. It would be like building a new coal plant in the US today. You simply can't compete with wind, solar, and natural gas (which is still superior to coal, and I don't mind it being a stranded…

How do wind and solar provide a solid baseline power. And China builds nuclear plants a lot faster and cheaper than we do, and no known accidents. Maybe we can learn something from them. Plus the whole 90% of a nuclear plant's cost is servicing the debt. Once completed the operational costs are a rounding error.

> How do wind and solar provide a solid baseline power.

Properly built and managed distribution networks, along with utility scale battery storage.

> And China builds nuclear plants a lot faster and cheaper than we do, and no known accidents.

Yet. China still gets more power from wind than nuclear, and they're building out wind generation capacity far faster than nuclear: http://www.earth-policy.org/data_highlights/2015/highlights5...

> Maybe we can learn something from them.

Indeed. When you're an authoritarian regime, you can operate more fluidly "at scale" (fuck you, I do what I want).

> Plus the whole 90% of a nuclear plant's cost is servicing the debt.

And yet, someone has to pony up those billions of dollars. A kickstarter perhaps?

> Once completed the operational costs are a rounding error.

And when you fail hard, it costs billions of dollars to cleanup: http://www.psr.org/environment-and-health/environmental-heal...

I'll take solar and wind, thanks.

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#47

1 cm3 of water weighs a lot more than 1 gram ?? From a quick skim through, many of his calcs seem to be based on this i.e. major error.

Uh, maybe if you're talking about heavy water. The density of liquid H2O at standard temperature and pressure is almost exactly 1g/cm^3.

Even heavy water would only weigh 1.112 grams per cc (at 4 degrees Celsius).

The molar mass of heavy water is 20.0276 versus 18.01528 for regular water.

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#48

The biggest problem with nuclear is making the numbers work. You end up paying something like 80% of the cost 1 GW/year * 50 years before you get your first cent in revenue. That's a very tough thing to finance. Cost and especially time overruns during construction can easily tank the project financially. About the only way to make it work is to be a regulated utility that has a long term captured audience for its po…

That doesn't make any sense. Wind and Solar PV have to be financed for probably 99% of the upfront cost. All power generation is like that - very capital intensive.

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#49
post #22

1 cm3 of water weighs a lot more than 1 gram ?? From a quick skim through, many of his calcs seem to be based on this i.e. major error.

The weight of one cubic centimeter of water is in fact one gram. By definition.

Not by definition: a kilogram is defined as the exact mass of a lump of iridium-platinum alloy sitting in a vault in Paris (well, Sèvres). But the kilogram was designed to be the weight of a liter of water at its melting point, and then later 4°C (where water achieves maximum density).

Re: Why nuclear energy is our best option at the moment

#50
post #39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't nearly as dangerous as the popular opinion would have you believe. There has been only a single incident that I'm aware of (Chernobyl), all others were near incidents (Three Mile Island, Japan, etc...). In fact, the technology and safety has come a long way since the 60's. Most US Navy ships are nuclear powered, and have not had incidents (and these are designed to go to war and survive). Japan was hit by…

> all others were near incidents (Three Mile Island, Japan, etc...). I would hardly call Fukushima [0] a "near incident." It's considered on the same scale as Chernobyl [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disa... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nuclear_Event_Sc...

> I would hardly call Fukushima [0] a "near incident."

I called it a "near incident" because there was no meltdown, and the issue was resolved without having to permanently evacuate any area around the plant.

Essentially they got it under control, and given the circumstances it took to get the plant into that situation in the first place, I'd say it's a flagship example of how far Nuclear safety has come.

Today Japan is activating even more Nuclear power plants.

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