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What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

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Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#11
I recently talked to a CFO who put it like this:

For the sake of planning: The difference between what you paid (you have to exercise options for this to matter) for your shares and what the are worth (see the company's most recent valuation) is counted as income for the current tax year.

If you hold the shares for more than a year, the money you make on a sale is subject to capital gains tax. This is indeed affected by WHEN you buy shares, so make sure to take monthly purchases (if you vest monthly) into account.

When you file your taxes: Hire someone; don't try to do this yourself.

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#12

It completely depends what type of options you have. If they are incentive stock options then you will need to report the value of the bargain element (fair market value of the options less the amount you actually paid) as AMT (alternative minimum tax) income. The AMT tax rate is ~27%. Say your stock is worth $110 and you pay $10. Your bargain element is $100 and your AMT is ~$27, federal. Your state could also have…

Would it be fair to say that, if one was set on exercising, that they do so for whatever amount has vested after their one year cliff, and then exercise the remainder (13/48-48/48) each month over their 4 year earn out in order to have as much of the stock covered under long term capital gains tax when it comes time to sell? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

This assumes your shares are worth more than your exercise price. :)

In order to get long-term capital gain treatment you will need to hold the shares for 1 year + 1 day. And more than 2 years from the grant date (this part usually isn't an issue).

By exercising every month after the 1 year cliff you essentially dollar-cost averaging your purchases. You might also want to use a similar strategy when it comes time to sell.

Also keep in mind that the long term capital gain rate is currently 20% plus 3.8% net investment income tax. (Again this if federal only).

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All US persons have to put up with at least this amount of calculation every year " This is most certainly not the case. My taxes aren't that complicated (despite having to file in two states each of the last few years, and three states this coming year), and I was doing the 1040-EZ up through about 2009-ish.

the point is that there is almost always a non-zero amount of work you have to do to file your taxes. Depending on your situation the amount of work can increase. For a large chunk of people the IRS already knows what they're supposed to be paying. Those people are still put throughout the 'tax return' exercise. I think the other commenters are right that for someone that's not familiar how taxes work in the US this…

And TurboTax spends a lot of money on lobbying [1] and advertising [2] to ensure that, first, it doesn't get any easier to file directly with the government, and second, that consumers think "TurboTax" when they think about tax software. The last sentence of your comment is exactly what Intuit wants to engineer.

[1] http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-these-taxpr...

[2] http://adage.com/article/special-report-super-bowl/turbotax-... The ads themselves aren't important so much as the fact that they air during the Super Bowl, one of the most effective and expensive ways to make sure millions of people see your message.

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All US persons have to put up with at least this amount of calculation every year " This is most certainly not the case. My taxes aren't that complicated (despite having to file in two states each of the last few years, and three states this coming year), and I was doing the 1040-EZ up through about 2009-ish.

You can't know if your itemized deductions will exceed the standard deduction unless you itemize your deductions on a draft schedule A. There is a chance that you could have owed less tax if you used the regular 1040 form, rather than the 1040-EZ, if you had medical expenses, gave to charity, had a home mortgage, suffered a loss due to crime, paid tax in another jurisdiction, etc, etc, etc. And if you use the 1040-EZ…

> You can't know if your itemized deductions will exceed the standard deduction

Yes I could, because I had a rough reckon of what my deductions would have been and knew I didn't have to bother.

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be fair to say that, if one was set on exercising, that they do so for whatever amount has vested after their one year cliff, and then exercise the remainder (13/48-48/48) each month over their 4 year earn out in order to have as much of the stock covered under long term capital gains tax when it comes time to sell? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

This assumes your shares are worth more than your exercise price. :) In order to get long-term capital gain treatment you will need to hold the shares for 1 year + 1 day. And more than 2 years from the grant date (this part usually isn't an issue). By exercising every month after the 1 year cliff you essentially dollar-cost averaging your purchases. You might also want to use a similar strategy when it comes time to…

Thank you for following up. Off to get my 409A valuation docs from HR :-P

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#16

I can hear all the non-US persons reading this article and laughing about all the insane idiocy that we put up with from the US tax code and IRS. All US persons have to put up with at least this amount of calculation every year (otherwise pay more than is strictly necessary, or possibly suffer penalties and fines later), and the details constantly change with the political tides. This is why tax reform crops up as an…

The pain with american stock options is you have to pay tax on exercise & liquidation with private non-liquid stock. When you exercise stock options in canada you only have to pay on actual liquidation, not on exercise.

So for example you have an option for 0.10, the FMV is 0.50 when you exercise and you eventually liquidate at 1.00.

In the USA you have to pay tax in the 0.40 'gain' right when you exercise. Then when you sell at 1.00, you pay another tax on the 0.50 gain that you had. The problem with paying tax on that 0.40 'gain' right away is you cannot sell the stock you receive easily to anyone like a public company.

Also capital losses can only tax deduct your real income a small amount in the USA. The rest stays around as a credit for your capital gains. So in the USA, there are large incentives to not exercise your startup stock options, and on top of it, they typically expire 90 days after quitting.

In Canada, when you exercise you pay no tax, but when you liquidate you pay tax on the 0.90 'gain'. I don't know how the long term / short term capital gains interact in this situation. Capital losses can also deduct fully from your income, so the pain of a startup that goes south is significantly less.

I don't know the details that well, so what is actual reality could be different. Go consult professionals.

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#17

I can hear all the non-US persons reading this article and laughing about all the insane idiocy that we put up with from the US tax code and IRS. All US persons have to put up with at least this amount of calculation every year (otherwise pay more than is strictly necessary, or possibly suffer penalties and fines later), and the details constantly change with the political tides. This is why tax reform crops up as an…

Tax reform never survives because there is no consensus on how it should be fixed. Some folks think we should "simplify" by eliminating deductions - things like home mortgage interest, child care expenses, medical expenses & health insurance premiums. Other folks think we should "simplify" by eliminating corporate tax breaks & subsidies, and change how we tax things like stock trades & financial instruments. Still ot…

Here's an idea on how to simplify.

The IRS sends you a summary from all your various W-2s and 1099s for the year. It has two numbers: what you earned as income, and how much you already paid for income tax this year.

And it sends you your tax form. If you earned less than the median annual income for this year, you owe zero. If you paid anything already, you get all of it back with the enclosed check.

If you earned more, you see the result of the automatic calculation, such as tax( income ) = max( income - median_income, 0 ) x tax_rate . That's an easily-calculated, slightly-progressive income tax, with only three computation steps. If you paid more than what you owe, you get a refund. Otherwise, you could, at that point, file the forms for additional politically-motivated deductions or credits, or just pay the difference and be done.

This has the notable advantage, thanks to using the single, easily-determined statistic of median income, of cutting the number of tax filers in half--specifically the half that would otherwise pay the least amount in tax. And that half can gleefully vote for the reform! Them along with the median-plus-one person constitute a simple majority in favor.

Anyone can sit down and come up with a better way to collect income tax from the perspective of the tax-payers. Anyone. Yes, even that guy. The problem is that the tax-payer perspective is not a factor when it comes to implementation. At that point, it is the perspective of the tax-collectors that matters. And from the perspective of the collectors, a system that offloads all the work onto the payers, and where any mistake at all could generate more tax revenue, is simply perfect. And the more confusing, the better, because unclaimed deductions increase revenue, and honest mistakes generate penalties.

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't know if your itemized deductions will exceed the standard deduction unless you itemize your deductions on a draft schedule A. There is a chance that you could have owed less tax if you used the regular 1040 form, rather than the 1040-EZ, if you had medical expenses, gave to charity, had a home mortgage, suffered a loss due to crime, paid tax in another jurisdiction, etc, etc, etc. And if you use the 1040-EZ…

> You can't know if your itemized deductions will exceed the standard deduction Yes I could, because I had a rough reckon of what my deductions would have been and knew I didn't have to bother.

That required you to have prior knowledge of what you could have deducted. If you didn't have such knowledge, your ignorance might have caused you to pay a higher amount of tax than you otherwise needed to.

This is why automated tax software asks so many questions about potential deductions.

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#19
post #11

I recently talked to a CFO who put it like this: For the sake of planning : The difference between what you paid (you have to exercise options for this to matter) for your shares and what the are worth (see the company's most recent valuation) is counted as income for the current tax year. If you hold the shares for more than a year, the money you make on a sale is subject to capital gains tax. This is indeed affecte…

> When you file your taxes: Hire someone; don't try to do this yourself.

I don't necessarily agree with this. The median person intelligent enough to work for a successful startup is competent enough to handle the tax implications of stock option exercise. True, it's time consuming to read enough to know what you're doing (e.g. what forms need to be filed), but the actual paperwork and calculations are not complex.

Re: What would the taxes be if I exercise my startup options?

#20
How concerned should I be about my employer (sizable company, ~300 employees) being reticent to divulge our 409A valuation with me? I've had a hard time (read: never did get; only got my options' fractional ownership in percentage terms after long nagging email chains) in the past getting any information to this effect, and we just raised another round a few months back, so I would like to estimate my tax burden, but they don't seem keen on sharing.
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