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Computer, Respond to This Email

googleresearch.blogspot.com

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Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#51

Post by jerf »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #8
mapleoin wrote: post #3

Finally! This will dispel all those rumours that Google reads all your email.

I think you have it backwards, before it read your email to scan for keyword advertising tags, now it actually interprets the email and can provide a coherent response. Next up, auto responding to pharma spam with orders because you complained to a friend in one previous email about your love life :-) Its just the computer trying to help out, it knows you want have a better life :-) The worrisome thing is that it whi…

I understand your concerns, but for most people, reading their email is unlikely to "help them escape from their filter bubble" or something. Most people aren't pundits with rivers of politics in their email. It's mostly spam, offers from mailing lists, more spam, some personal emails, a couple of urban legends, etc. I mean, I guess some of the spam is political, too... did you know that Obama is the actual Anti-Christ predicted in revelation? But it's not generally of the "mind-changing" variety....

Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#52

Post by supersan »

I'm often amazed how Google still gives it staff this unique hacker-like approach to their million dollar projects.

For example, the stuff in Google labs (gmail) has had some silly things like don't hit send when you're drunk but sometimes very useful features which may be considered unorthodox like "Gmail telling you when it thinks you wanted to attach a file but forgot".

It's something I wouldn't generally associate with a very corporate design but here they are wanting to add another silly feature and who knows how it will turn out? Maybe it will be super useful and then all the other companies will start to copy it.

But the thing is they're inventing new ways that really don't fit your product development roadmaps. I really like that about them.

Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#53

Post by Zelphyr »

imh wrote: post #29

I appreciate the privacy standards they used (no humans reading your email to develop this), but am concerned that it's not enough. As I understand with language models, overfitting takes the form of returning a sequence of words seen in the training set. If this is overfitting in any part of the response space, this could happen. Out of a million emails, how many suggested responses are going to substantively resemb…

Much of this strikes me as a "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" issue. Google clearly loves machine learning and doing cool things but I think lately they've been taking it too far.

For example; after purchasing a book on Amazon recently I happened to do a Google search on that book and the first thing I see is, "Your book is scheduled to be delivered on..." Aside from the creepy factor I'm left wondering what purpose this serves? I just ordered the book. I KNOW it's on its way.

Turns out they just mined my emails from Gmail to provide it in search results.

I'm sure some developer or product manager thought it would be a cool thing to do without giving any consideration to usefulness much less user privacy. I really don't feel like Google needs to know what I'm buying thankyouverymuch. Gmail account: closed.

Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#55

Post by imh »

IgorPartola wrote: post #40
imh wrote: post #29

I appreciate the privacy standards they used (no humans reading your email to develop this), but am concerned that it's not enough. As I understand with language models, overfitting takes the form of returning a sequence of words seen in the training set. If this is overfitting in any part of the response space, this could happen. Out of a million emails, how many suggested responses are going to substantively resemb…

But you have a lot more to go off here and the number of replies is limited to maybe a few thousand at most. It can quickly determine if it's a scheduling email, check your calendar, and generate responses like "I am available" and "I'm busy". For others it can be as simple as "I'll check it out and get back to you". Finally, if you are expected to review the automatically composed response or choose from several opt…

I'm talking about a slightly different problem. I'm not suggesting that you might accidentally click to send a reply you didn't want to share, so you reviewing it is beside the point. I'm suggesting that by mining all our emails, it might make a suggestion to me based on something you didn't want to share.

E.g. Someone writes me an email about a rare kink you often talk about. You're the main data point on that kink, so it suggests I respond with something you often say when you talk about this topic, maybe including personal details. It's not a totally precise or realistic example, but with large numbers and complex models, unintended things are bound to happen on occasion. Will those things leak information?

As for your comment that the potential replies are limited in number and as structured as you say, I don't get that from the original post, and it doesn't quite fit with my understanding of the model.

Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#56

Post by cromwellian »

ljk wrote: post #34
sunnyps wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop with this "you're the product" nonsense. Please.

> * Stop with this "you're the product" nonsense. Please. * what would you call it?

Google does not sell "users", that's why it is inaccurate and misleading.

What would you say of a private highway that sells billboards? If the business model of a private highway is not tolls, but instead selling ads along the road. "You're not the user, you're the product?" Would you say the highway owner is selling the personal information of the drivers?

The people buying billboards do not receive any personal identifying information about the drivers, they are instead buying access through an auction, like if this particular highway feeds into a sporting arena, then it is likely a good place to put ads for football fashion.

Within Google, Gmail/Inbox are Products. Their success metrics are user happiness and usage statistics. Like many startups, Google produces products which get marketshare and please users first, and then figure out the business model later. Google itself was launched with no real business model. And when Gmail was created, there was probably no plan on how to make money on it. They just wanted to do something awesome, and Gmail was born.

Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#57

Post by sunnyps »

jerf wrote: post #49
sunnyps wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The product is the service being offered, in the case of Google it's search, mail, maps, etc. How they make money is unrelated to what the "product" is. E.g. I switched from free ad-supported YouTube to the paid ad-less YouTube Red, does that mean what the "product" is suddenly changed? Also you really are the "customer" or "user" of the many services being offered by Google just like an advertiser is a "customer" of…

This is a lot of words that amount to "Nuh-uh!" The entire point of the "if you're not paying, you're the product" spiel is that everybody already knows everything you said, but there's a fundamental difference between paying and not paying. You're not going to get that far demanding that people stop thinking there's a difference, nor are people going to stop verbalizing that difference, nor should they. What's clich…

That was a rational argument. You know as well as I do that if you explained it the way I did above most people would not care. But instead you insist on the "you're the product" FUD nonsense to elicit an emotional response. Spreading FUD is a demagogue's job, I would never condone it.

Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#58

Post by newjersey »

imh wrote: post #55
IgorPartola wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you have a lot more to go off here and the number of replies is limited to maybe a few thousand at most. It can quickly determine if it's a scheduling email, check your calendar, and generate responses like "I am available" and "I'm busy". For others it can be as simple as "I'll check it out and get back to you". Finally, if you are expected to review the automatically composed response or choose from several opt…

I'm talking about a slightly different problem. I'm not suggesting that you might accidentally click to send a reply you didn't want to share, so you reviewing it is beside the point. I'm suggesting that by mining all our emails, it might make a suggestion to me based on something you didn't want to share. E.g. Someone writes me an email about a rare kink you often talk about. You're the main data point on that kink,…

You raise a very important point. I'd hope that there is an actual finite (and relatively small) corpus of approved, manually white listed answers that transcend through Google accounts. You might get personalized options based on what you write most but they would not show for other people. Would that be enough to satisfy this concern?

Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#59

Post by thrownaway2424 »

Zelphyr wrote: post #53
imh wrote: post #29

I appreciate the privacy standards they used (no humans reading your email to develop this), but am concerned that it's not enough. As I understand with language models, overfitting takes the form of returning a sequence of words seen in the training set. If this is overfitting in any part of the response space, this could happen. Out of a million emails, how many suggested responses are going to substantively resemb…

Much of this strikes me as a "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" issue. Google clearly loves machine learning and doing cool things but I think lately they've been taking it too far. For example; after purchasing a book on Amazon recently I happened to do a Google search on that book and the first thing I see is, "Your book is scheduled to be delivered on..." Aside from the creepy factor I'm left wonderin…

Order status and package tracking are extremely popular features of Google Now.

Re: Computer, Respond to This Email

#60

Post by davidw »

supersan wrote: post #52

I'm often amazed how Google still gives it staff this unique hacker-like approach to their million dollar projects. For example, the stuff in Google labs (gmail) has had some silly things like don't hit send when you're drunk but sometimes very useful features which may be considered unorthodox like "Gmail telling you when it thinks you wanted to attach a file but forgot". It's something I wouldn't generally associat…

> sometimes very useful features which may be considered unorthodox like "Gmail telling you when it thinks you wanted to attach a file but forgot".

That one's not that hard.

http://marc.info/?l=mutt-dev&m=95685122323646&w=2

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