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New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

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Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#171

Post by rhino369 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #154
rhino369 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the movies except 1 and 4 were essentially action movies. And 4 was mostly a fish out of water comedy.

As much as it's often panned, Insurrection is the most Star Trek of Star Trek movies. It's about the Prime Directive at it's core. The Undiscovered Country is also a great example of a movie about diplomacy. Sure, every movie is going to be action-packed for film screens, but those two I felt stuck to Star Trek's ideals more than the rest, where the movie focused on stopping a specific evil villain.

It's been a while since I saw Insurrection and Undiscovered Country, but you could make a similar argument about Star Trek into Darkness. It was about the struggle between a militarized starfleet and a starfleet about discovery and exploration.

Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#173

Post by ant6n »

zzalpha wrote: post #126
sp332 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrath of Khan is only good because of Mantalban. The movies didn't really pick up until the fourth one, when they stopped taking them so seriously and just had some fun making a movie. And at least a handful of good episodes exist. There are no such specimens among the (two) new movies.

Wrath of Khan is only good because of Mantalban. The movies didn't really pick up until the fourth one, when they stopped taking them so seriously and just had some fun making a movie. So you're a "Trouble with Tribbles" kind of a guy/girl. Nothing wrong with that at all, everyone has different tastes! But we'll agree to disagree. While Khan is clearly an action film first, it's an exploration of Kirk as a character,…

Star Trek IV is definitely a lazy, dumb (object) story serving as a thin layer to make some point about 80ies environmentalism. But it's still a lot of fun, and thus one of my favorites.

Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#174

Post by zzalpha »

s5edvvddd wrote: post #168
zzalpha wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're mostly generic action in space with some familiar names and Starfleet uniforms. You've just described the Wrath of Khan, considered one of the finest films in the franchise. Hell, a good number of episodes in every series in the franchise were just action in space... the Best of Both Worlds is literally just Us vs The Borg. Fans have incredibly rose tinted glasses regarding ST. For every City on the Edge of F…

How could The Drumhead remind you of Into Darkness? It is a incoherent action movie with plot points that function as an "homage" (read: shameful copy) to the original movies or they serve as a plot device, versus a courtroom drama. The only connection between them is that they both happen mostly in space and on a spaceship.

It seems you aren't diffentiating between the narrative structure versus the narrative themes.

Structurally, yeah, obviously they're very different.

However, thematically, they share a lot of similarities.

In The Drumhead, Starfleet begins a witchhunt to track down a suspected spy they believe is working with the Romulans.

Into Darkness involves a group of people who attempt to manufacture a war with the Klingons, whom they perceive as a fundamental threat to the Federation.

Both examine racism, fear, and xenophobia in the context of the Star Trek universe, and the lengths people will go to if they feel they're morally justified based on those perceived fears.

Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#175

Post by dogma1138 »

hansjorg wrote: post #119
dogma1138 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a hardcore fan either I watched TNG, DS9 and Voyager as just another Scifi show back when MGM, Paramount and 20cent Fox still wanted to make television we had Stargate, Babylon 5, Star Trek, then Scifi was pretty much left to in the hands of syndicated TV productions and basic cable which resulted in well meh. Shows like BSG are pretty much unicorn's these days no one seems to want to make serious scifi the b…

Ascension was good. My favourite sci-fi series the last few years has been Charlie Brooker's Black Mirror though. The Christmas special in particular was pretty mind bending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jROLrhQkK78

I've seen the first "season" of black mirror it was OK is just don't like that type of Scifi I like my Scifi more bigger than life, and while i don't mind some "futuristic earth" shows Black Mirror has the same issue I have with most UK shows and that they produce too little episodes to even fill an afternoon, but Black Mirror just took it to a whole new level with having like what 2-3 episodes?

The new season on Netflix will hopefully be at least 10 episode long so I might actually take another spin at it, waiting 10 years for another 3 episodes of Luther or Sherlock is bad enough I'm not going through this again.

With US TV shows I usually wait until at least the mid season or the 9 episode pickup because lately US TV shows especially from the bigger networks have less job security than the offspring of JRR Martin novels and the Walking Dead characters.

So far we had quite a "decent" year, 12 Monkeys has been renewed, Childhoods End and Westworld are coming, the CW actually managed to make comic book shows (never was a huge comic fan, infact i never had a chance to read a single book i think) cool, we are bloody getting The Man in the High Castle show on Amazon and Marvel's Netflix production is in full gear.

Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#176

Post by s5edvvddd »

zzalpha wrote: post #174
s5edvvddd wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could The Drumhead remind you of Into Darkness? It is a incoherent action movie with plot points that function as an "homage" (read: shameful copy) to the original movies or they serve as a plot device, versus a courtroom drama. The only connection between them is that they both happen mostly in space and on a spaceship.

It seems you aren't diffentiating between the narrative structure versus the narrative themes . Structurally, yeah, obviously they're very different. However, thematically, they share a lot of similarities. In The Drumhead, Starfleet begins a witchhunt to track down a suspected spy they believe is working with the Romulans. Into Darkness involves a group of people who attempt to manufacture a war with the Klingons, w…

The movie doesn't examine anything. There are some themes are shared, but they are in no way addressed in the same depth as in the episode. A plot device about racism in an action movie does not equal developing that theme an hour long well written court drama. And the punctuation just makes it even more clear, the episode is ended by a moral speech while the movie ends with an action scene.

Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#177

Post by zzalpha »

s5edvvddd wrote: post #176
zzalpha wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you aren't diffentiating between the narrative structure versus the narrative themes . Structurally, yeah, obviously they're very different. However, thematically, they share a lot of similarities. In The Drumhead, Starfleet begins a witchhunt to track down a suspected spy they believe is working with the Romulans. Into Darkness involves a group of people who attempt to manufacture a war with the Klingons, w…

The movie doesn't examine anything. There are some themes are shared, but they are in no way addressed in the same depth as in the episode. A plot device about racism in an action movie does not equal developing that theme an hour long well written court drama. And the punctuation just makes it even more clear, the episode is ended by a moral speech while the movie ends with an action scene.

The movie doesn't examine anything.

Well, I can tell you're open minded and not too critical. I'm sure continuing this conversation will be incredibly productive and enlightening...

Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#178

Post by s5edvvddd »

zzalpha wrote: post #177
s5edvvddd wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The movie doesn't examine anything. There are some themes are shared, but they are in no way addressed in the same depth as in the episode. A plot device about racism in an action movie does not equal developing that theme an hour long well written court drama. And the punctuation just makes it even more clear, the episode is ended by a moral speech while the movie ends with an action scene.

The movie doesn't examine anything. Well, I can tell you're open minded and not too critical. I'm sure continuing this conversation will be incredibly productive and enlightening...

Words of a person without any arguments.

Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#179

Post by serge2k »

zzalpha wrote: post #107
hansjorg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really hope that this won't be in the rebooted universe because it was well kinda meh I'm not a hardcore Star Trek fan, but was very disappointed with the new films. They're mostly generic action in space with some familiar names and Starfleet uniforms. Every little thing that made Star Trek entertaining has been stripped away. Not too surprising considering JJ Abrams told in an interview that "I would watch epis…

They're mostly generic action in space with some familiar names and Starfleet uniforms. You've just described the Wrath of Khan, considered one of the finest films in the franchise. Hell, a good number of episodes in every series in the franchise were just action in space... the Best of Both Worlds is literally just Us vs The Borg. Fans have incredibly rose tinted glasses regarding ST. For every City on the Edge of F…

Wrath of khan had much better execution.

Best of both worlds also showed Picard becoming the enemy, riker as captain having to try to stop the Borg at the cost of his friend, and some more good background on the Borg.

Plus the effects of that episode lasted into ds9 and first contact.

Re: New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017

#180

Post by serge2k »

zzalpha wrote: post #146
jgon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To call "The Wrath of Khan" generic action is pretty unfair, especially when compared against it's clone/reboot "Into Darkness". TWOK opens with Kirk pondering his own mortality and some of the universal concerns of aging. ID opens with a Spock apparently deciding to off himself, with no real motivation or development of that decision given. We can quibble about the intervening parts but for my part I find the action…

It prioritizes communication and curiousity over violence and dominance. In the context of the series, sure, where you have an hour a week to wax philosophical. The movies are far more uneven in that respect. They attempted it in The Motion Picture. Result: total snoozer. Khan is an action/revenge flick. Search For Spock is another action/revenge flick. Voyage Home is far more in the original mold, humans trying to m…

Into darkness is worse because it's a shallow ripoff of a better movie.
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