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A new approach to China

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Re: A new approach to China

#131

Post by Femur »

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

How often do you cross-post the exact same comment between HN and reddit?

http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/aouv5/new_appro...

Edit: I may have jumped to conclusions; the individual on reddit may have very well stolen your comment in which case my accusation is invalid.

Re: A new approach to China

#132

Post by DrJokepu »

jjguy wrote: post #68
there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

10 bucks on 0day.

As I commented elsewhere in this post, gossip is that the attack was launched from _within_ the Chinese offices of Google, not just from the Internet.

Re: A new approach to China

#133

Post by PieSquared »

Femur wrote: post #131
boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

How often do you cross-post the exact same comment between HN and reddit? http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/aouv5/new_appro... Edit: I may have jumped to conclusions; the individual on reddit may have very well stolen your comment in which case my accusation is invalid.

If it's the same article, why shouldn't it be the same comment?

Re: A new approach to China

#134

Post by iamv »

liuliu wrote: post #88
there wrote: post #38

nobody seems to be commenting on the attack part of that post. what was the "highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google"? that doesn't sound like just a few end-user gmail accounts being compromised, but something that was much more serious that may have exposed more information than just what these ch…

For some background information: GFW research team tried heavily to crack down the SSL certificate for gmail (thus, they can censor the gmail content through GFW).

fuck GFW

Re: A new approach to China

#135

Post by netcan »

cwan wrote: post #121
netcan wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book "Creative Capitalism" features a discussion, sparked by Bill Gate's speech about the ability of tweaking capitalism somehow to serve the very poorest of the world. The economist-headed detractors tended to boil everything down to companies charging higher prices in order to give money to charity. They then explain that this doesn't work because it is proven that customers will buy the ethical option online i…

Just a small quibble - I think you're creating a bit of a strawman in economists. Coming from both an economics and marketing background, I would suggest most economists believe that companies should act in the interests of their shareholders. Charity can be a form of marketing just as creating a culture where at times short term profits may be sacrificed for long term benefits is also very much in the best interests…

I come from a somewhat similar background. I work in marketing and I am somewhat of an amateur economist.

I agree with you about the strawman. But many economists or more commonly, people with economics in their backgrounds take this sort of a view. They like to distil things to an economics "story." Sometimes this is a great tool. Sometimes this loses important info. Economics training does come with the danger of this kind of mistake though. I heard that there was a serious divide between students and old timers about Ostrom receiving the Nobel (the students didn't like it).

One "story" they (the against camp) told was: If being good is more profitable, companies will do it without being told. That's capitalism, nothing creative about it. If it isn't more profitable and they do it, they are forcing shareholders to contribute a charity of the company's choosing.

Another was the one I mentioned above. If you take an economics graduate, you may find that they're not sure what make of a world where getting customers to choose you're same price, same value product is the difference between non-starter & Unilever. It doesn't make sense to tell this story with the basic vocabulary of microeconomics.

In any case, some essays published in the book make this argument. I don't mean to suggest that all or even most economists would take this view. Great economists (like great anyone) are empowered, but not restricted by their tools.

Re: A new approach to China

#136

Post by newhouseb »

I just talked to a friend of mine in the computer industry, native Chinese, my age (early 20s). I asked him about the Google news and he said when it comes to economics he's quite the idiot, and such things don't really concern him much. It's kind of ironic, since I recall him mentioning that Google was thinking of pulling out of China months ago. He did mention however that other new restrictions on things like registering .cn domains had caused him great inconvenience (he had to migrate all of his stuff to a .com), so that evidences he's not all roses about everything Chinese gov't wise.

It appears that within China this is being spun as the surrender of a foreign company failing to understand the Chinese market, and outside China as some sort of stand on Humans Rights. Probably both are true, but I think it's interesting to see the perspectives as reported by both sides.

Re: A new approach to China

#137

Post by rms »

djcapelis wrote: post #113
siculars wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so proud of Google right now. It's hard to contain. It is high time somoene stood up to China and let them know enough is enough. I sincerely hope other corporations follow suit. As I mentioned elsewhere, I am sure there is more to the story than is being let on now. I could only imagine the level of corporate espionage that is in play between China and Google. Good for Google calling them on it and making a bro…

> I could only imagine the level of corporate espionage that is in play between China and Google. I'm not sure these types of interactions can still be described as corporate espionage. The fact that one of these parties is a sovereign nation creates wrinkle to this whole thing. (From what I understand China doesn't directly link themselves too closely with this but no one really thinks this isn't covert stuff being…

It's further muddled because China is a sovereign nation with significant corporate holdings.

Re: A new approach to China

#138

Post by [deleted] »

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #32
btilly wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say is true. Yet is this move in any way inconsistent with how Google has generally been running its business? To me that is the most remarkable fact in the whole affair.

They were willing to censor results. No more. I would say that is a big change in the way they are willing to run the business. Something about this affair must have stung Google. Either morally (going after human rights activists) or in business (increased risks of attacks and infiltration)

[deleted]

Re: A new approach to China

#139

Post by ghshephard »

Read the following:

"Google said that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human right activists, but that the attack also targeted 20 other large companies in the finance, technology, media and chemical sectors."

The question I have - is were these companies' infrastructures being run by Google? And, if so, could this reaction be the harbinger of a revelation of an attack on their managed services business?

Re: A new approach to China

#140

Post by defen »

houseabsolute wrote: post #86
borism wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"in order to say 'don't be evil' you must already dwell in that space of evil" -Slavoj Zizek at Google: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x0eyNkNpL0#t=1h13m55s

I can't really spend the time to watch that video right now, nor am I in the right context. Could someone summarize it for me? It can't be that what he's saying is that you have to be evil for "don't be evil" to have any meaning, because that would be moronic. But I can't parse any other meaning from this short little quote. Edit: no, that's not what he's saying, but I think I might not have the intellectual capacity…

Honestly, you shouldn't waste too many brain cycles on trying to decode Zizek
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