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A new approach to China

googleblog.blogspot.com

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Re: A new approach to China

#41

Post by forkandwait »

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #6

This is incredible. This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company * Putting its users above profits * Stand up to Chinese Government. Since accounts of human rights activists were targeted, this operation was clearly done at the behest of Chinese Government. I'm disgusted by the levels to which the Chinese Government can stoop. It is time the world stands up to China. If a corporation, whose main aim is to gene…

... This is the first time, I have seen a LARGE company...

I don't want to romanticize times gone by, but I think at certain points in history there have been people who controlled large companies also knew that their sustainable existence depended on a healthy society; there might be short term costs to investing in such a society, but the long term benefits are enormous. In the neo-liberal era, this approach is no longer given any credence, but that is Bad Thing, indeed, and really just plain foolishness.

(Please somebody explain the downvote.)

Re: A new approach to China

#42

Post by nfnaaron »

JCThoughtscream wrote: post #16
maxklein wrote: post #4

It's easy to shut down the site when you are losing the search game to local competition. In any case, even though I find freedom of speech to be necessary and encouraged, I do not think that Google is right to imply in this blog post that the Chinese government is behind the attacks.

The targeting of Chinese human rights activists' email accounts don't seem Suspicious to you? Exactly what /private/ group would have motive for this?

It seems very likely it's the Chinese govt. But I don't doubt that other governments have an interest in what activists all over the world do, including our own.

Re: A new approach to China

#43

Post by [deleted] »

andrewljohnson wrote: post #23

Call me suspicious, but could this pull-out have anything to do with Google getting beat up by Baidu? Maybe getting beat isn't the reason for pulling out, but it at least makes the decision much easier if you aren't the market leader in the country. Another big company, GE, will shut down businesses where they aren't 1st or 2nd in a market. If Google were dominant in China or making a lot of money, this decision migh…

[deleted]

Re: A new approach to China

#44

Post by riobard »

I want to add some background knowledge:

- ever since the ending of the Olympics in 2008, Chinese government started a series of large scale "cleaning up" operations all in the name of removing porn from the Internet (while we all know what's the more obvious reason ...).

- Many report that as of now Xinjiang Autonomous Region has Internet access to only a few selected official websites after the riot in 2009.

- There are rumors about a potential whitelist-based filtering system coming online this year (2010). All websites (no matter where they are physically located or legally registered) must register and report to MII (http://www.miibeian.gov.cn/) if they offer Chinese content to visitors from mainland China, or they might be banned by the Great Firewall.

- Previously, individuals can register .cn domains. They tight up control over .cn registration and some registrars are actually starting to limit the IP address that .cn domains can use to only those within mainland China.

Re: A new approach to China

#45

Post by btilly »

boundlessdreamz wrote: post #32
btilly wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say is true. Yet is this move in any way inconsistent with how Google has generally been running its business? To me that is the most remarkable fact in the whole affair.

They were willing to censor results. No more. I would say that is a big change in the way they are willing to run the business. Something about this affair must have stung Google. Either morally (going after human rights activists) or in business (increased risks of attacks and infiltration)

That in itself was a significant enough shift from their normal operating procedure for me to think of it as an exception, and they were bothered enough by it that they felt they had to justify it. Also their justification at least made some sense, so the decision that they came to wasn't entirely out of character with how they generally operate.

Re: A new approach to China

#46

Post by bilbo0s »

Wow!

Things just went batshit crazy. Trying to tell financial people to calm down. Google wasn't making any money in China anyway. And there is no reason to think right now that this will affect anyone else.

I REALLY hope people can regain their bearing before tomorrow's trading session.

Thank you Google for announcing this after market close!

To have announced it during trading would have been horrid.

EDIT: BTW It is testimony to the power of social media that people didn't freak when it hit Google's blog, but when it hit the social media sites. Lesson learned there, by me anyway.

Re: A new approach to China

#47

Post by ErrantX »

andrewljohnson wrote: post #23

Call me suspicious, but could this pull-out have anything to do with Google getting beat up by Baidu? Maybe getting beat isn't the reason for pulling out, but it at least makes the decision much easier if you aren't the market leader in the country. Another big company, GE, will shut down businesses where they aren't 1st or 2nd in a market. If Google were dominant in China or making a lot of money, this decision migh…

With the sheer number of internet users in China I suspect even 2nd and 3rd place wouldn't be something to walk away from lightly.

Re: A new approach to China

#48

Post by djcapelis »

There are very few hacking incidents that have led to such public international incidents.

I think this is one of the first times I've seen a company publicly pin attacks of nationalistic hackers against a government.

This is incredible in a plethora of ways and its impacts on computer security shouldn't be overlooked either.

Re: A new approach to China

#49

Post by chollida1 »

omouse wrote: post #3
enomar wrote: post #2

We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China. Wow.

They shouldn't have even opened an office in China. What the heck did they expect to happen?

I imagine they expected to tap into some of the best computer science talent on the face of the earth.

Just like they expected to do when they opened offices in Europe, Canada, etc.

Re: A new approach to China

#50

Post by kvs »

maxklein wrote: post #4

It's easy to shut down the site when you are losing the search game to local competition. In any case, even though I find freedom of speech to be necessary and encouraged, I do not think that Google is right to imply in this blog post that the Chinese government is behind the attacks.

Google is doing something good. This could be a catalyst for something bigger & better.

But, kudos to you for putting things in perspective. Baidu is where 77% of Chinese get their search done. Google is at 19% there.

Edit: @maxklein read the Northrop Grumman report linked on this post in case you think attribution to a country is solely based on origin IP. Usually, it's a bit more deeper than that.

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