Good. Systemd can die. Debian should never have started using them, too.
There is plenty of people happy with debian's adoption of systemd, myself included.
Busybox removes support for systemd
91–100 of 203 posts
Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well that's a good question, I'd like to have an answer to that. debian adoption of systemd was a bumpy ride to say the least, it caused a few long time contributors to resign and others to fork debian to remove systemd in a new distro called devuan. Then again systemd gobbled other critical components such as udev, there's also gnome that made it a strict requirement, like a cancer it grows and takes over other comp…
Devuan is someone's extended tantrum and little more. Like every other rage-fork it'll die a slow death because who wants to develop on a platform founded on the premise of "why do we need to change anything? It's all working fine!"
They began work on a logind compatibility layer over ConsoleKit2, they're writing a NetworkManager alternative, they directly influenced and are supporting a udev alternative called vdev (which also has libudev compatibility), and a host of other things.
For a rage-fork, it's pretty impressive. They're changing a lot. It's easier to just astroturf in the corner, though, I suppose.
Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#93PID 1 should be boring. Tiny, simple and boring. Any software project that raises this much controversy should be looked at with a raised eyebrow. A software project this large, complex, controversial and coupled that wants to be PID 1? Absolutely no way.
Most of systemd is not in PID 1. People making this complaint don't seem to have any idea what is in init normally or why you might want to add more stuff there (for example, where are you going to manage cgroup trees for system processes from?)
So the same can be done on Linux. At least one system, OpenRC, has explicit support in such a manner.
(I take it you haven't read the architectural critique? Most pro-systemd arguments fall flat on their face in any event.)
Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#94Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#95Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is plenty of people happy with debian's adoption of systemd, myself included.
I'm going to step out on a ledge here, but those that are happy with it really don't understand linux or much of how it works beyond editing a few confs. None of which ever touch systemd
What I don't get is why so many people are in this debate. It hardly matters to anyone what init system (or 'central management and configuration system') is used. It doesn't matter to users, they just want their linux systems to boot, and their confs to be easy to write. It doesn't matter to user space developers, it's just another system to implement support for, conveniently one that's used by most distros and as far as I can tell not terribly hard to grok.
Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#97For the curious, here is the original commit comment:
> remove systemd support
> systemd people are not willing to play nice with the rest of the world.
> Therefore there is no reason for the rest of the world to cooperate with them.
> Signed-off-by: Denys Vlasenko
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%...
Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#98The discrediting debates, labeling near abuse and mockery of opponents, appeals to authority and exaggerated consensus do not look accidental. This has all the markings of a sophisticated campaign.
For many this can be off putting but its also a wake up call on some naive ideas about how the world works. Money drives decisions, the cathedral and bazaar as a metaphor has no meaning when the bazaar has spawned a billon dollar cathedral in its midst, and like the failure of communism in practice this too could be anticipated. Money has its own agenda and always corrupts everything. And we all know this because its part of our historical record and common sense. And there is nothing we can do about that because in the real work words are meaningless. Individuals have zero power, groups have some power but its groups with money that hold the cards.
The Debian management tells users,not out of exasperation, or frustration but of arrogance that they essentially don't matter, and the only way they can have a voice is with code. This disrespect for users lies in contrast to a project that has none and thus the self awareness to realise it is meaningless without them. This new found arrogance sits uneasily with the ideals of the open source movement but anyone who draws the dots will realise its not an open source movement but a full fledged corporate movement with the thinnest veneer of ideology that is not up for 'management'.
For the next generation you cannot protect ideals if you enable and allow cathedrals to grow in your midst. For the current things do not automatically fix themselves, the awareness of the power of money to influence outcomes and how to firewall them, how to ensure co-existence, sustenance and growth, how to reward projects and developers and how to ensure you are not getting hijacked and sidelines by interested parties should be the 'community', and there is no such current organization in the ecosystem that's not tainted by corporatism and opportunism.
Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#99Interesting to see that the commit linked here has been yanked from the repo. For the curious, here is the original commit comment: > remove systemd support > systemd people are not willing to play nice with the rest of the world. > Therefore there is no reason for the rest of the world to cooperate with them. > Signed-off-by: Denys Vlasenko http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%...
Re: Busybox removes support for systemd
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I don't get is, if systemd is so troublesome, why are so many distros picking it up? I know popularity isn't a perfect signal, but in this case of highly technical users that are distributing OSes it seems valid.
It's actually a pretty good system and IMO way better than previous attempts at init systems throughout Linux history.