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It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

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Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#71

Post by [deleted] »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #63
yongjik wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, settlers weren't willing to give up so much , those people went on to colonize America precisely because they had so little to lose. They were already enduring poverty, hardship, and (in many cases) discrimination to such a degree that crossing the ocean and starting a new life in an unknown land inhabited with hostile indigenous tribes seemed a good enough deal in comparison. In other words, imagine a developer…

There's a bunch of people right now who are willing to risk death at sea to try to get from Syria to Europe. A fair number of them would probably accept a one-way ticket to Mars, even with the risk it involves.

[deleted]

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#72

Post by yongjik »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #63
yongjik wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, settlers weren't willing to give up so much , those people went on to colonize America precisely because they had so little to lose. They were already enduring poverty, hardship, and (in many cases) discrimination to such a degree that crossing the ocean and starting a new life in an unknown land inhabited with hostile indigenous tribes seemed a good enough deal in comparison. In other words, imagine a developer…

There's a bunch of people right now who are willing to risk death at sea to try to get from Syria to Europe. A fair number of them would probably accept a one-way ticket to Mars, even with the risk it involves.

It's the other side of the equation that's missing. Somebody has to be making money selling a one-way ticket to Mars to a desperate refugee. As for now, I doubt even Bill Gates' whole wealth could buy a single ticket to Mars.

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#73

Post by vectorpush »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #64
vectorpush wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your concern is the possible extinction of humanity, I don't see how an arduous journey to a barren and inhospitable wasteland is of any use to the cause. If we can manage to survive on Mars, certainly we can manage to survive on the most life-friendly planet known to man.

> If your concern is the possible extinction of humanity, I don't see how an arduous journey to a barren and inhospitable wasteland is of any use to the cause. I'm perplexed by this statement as the journey would be the exact opposite of what you purport. Are you saying that, unless we can travel to someplace that is very hospitable to life, that we shouldn't bother? How are we ever going to develop the technology to…

>Are you saying that, unless we can travel to someplace that is very hospitable to life, that we shouldn't bother?

No. I'm saying that if the threat of human extinction is the GP's concern, a mission to Mars is very low on the list of solutions that will effectively mitigate that threat.

> How are we ever going to develop the technology to go to such a theoretical place if we're not working on the technology already and constantly iterating on it?

I never said or implied that we shouldn't work on such technology, what I'm saying is that there are more immediate problems to deal with if one's primary concern is the continued existence of the human race. Colonizing Mars does not scale as a defense against an extinction event, and human colonization outside the solar system will remain impractical for the foreseeable future, and possibly forever.

>Let's say we're going to be hit with an asteroid that will kill all / most life on Earth.

I'd take my chances on a post-apocalyptic Earth before attempting to tough it out on Mars or the moon which are even more susceptible to celestial collisions considering their atmospheres.

> Are you saying there is no such thing as an extinct level event for humans simply because we can live on Mars? I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to convey here.

No. I'm saying that Mars as an environment is already an existential threat to humanity in its natural state, and any problems we might face on Earth will certainly be present on Mars, except Mars is also hostile to life.

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#75

Post by warfangle »

yongjik wrote: post #45
warfangle wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> send a dozen robotic probes to every planet in the solar system. And not have any dividends at all in terms of sustainable environmental cycles....

Why do you hate freedom, err, I mean, better robotics, batteries, and solar panel technology? :P

Sure!

But those don't have much to do with creating sustainable ecosystems (farming, direct atmospheric management, etc). They help, to be sure! But most of the innovations in robotics, batteries and solar panels aren't coming out of the space program these days, AFAIK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHGK96-WixU

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#76

Post by selimthegrim »

rayiner wrote: post #31

> Our 12-year-old daughter who, like us, is a big fan of The Martian by Andy Weir, said, “I can’t stand that people think we’re all going to live on Mars after we destroy our own planet. Even after we’ve made the Earth too hot and polluted for humans, it still won’t be as bad as Mars. At least there’s plenty of water here, and the atmosphere won’t make your head explode.” Kid has a good head on her shoulders. She sou…

I'd rather they spend that money on Mars than turning Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, [enter unfortunate country here], into a hole in the ground with cell service to feed the MI complex for the same amount.

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#77

Post by michaelmrose »

vectorpush wrote: post #60
michaelmrose wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine a variety of extinction events that could touch one world and not the other. I'm sure you can too.

I can't really imagine an extinction event that could touch a world that cannot support life as we know it.

We are talking about a hypothetical scenario in which we have colonized mars. A meteor could take out earth but not mars for example

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#78

Post by Joof »

FreelanceX wrote: post #14
transfire wrote: post #7

> But a colony on Mars would need to be a nearly perfectly self-contained, resource neutral system that harvests energy from the sun and is rarely or never re-supplied. That is currently beyond the reach of science and human ingenuity. It is no where near the limits of our reach. We already have people living in space year round without any local resources. What we do seem to lack however is any faith in ourselves.

It may not be beyond our reach, but it is beyond my tolerance as to what I am willing to support as a taxpayer.

Considering that people like Musk want to finance it commercially (yes, really), this point may be moot; however...

The technology involved in going to mars will significantly advance (and cheapen) several areas that would otherwise be ignored. Currently we see SpaceX developing cost-saving technology such as landing rocket boosters and ramping up mass production.

In order to live on mars we would need specialized farming equipment, chemistry equipment, robots, interstellar transportation and communication, knowledge on how to terraform at a massive scale and so on. It would be a boon to numerous commercial interests and likely pay for itself and then some.

Re: It’s completely ridiculous to think that humans could live on Mars

#79

Post by BinaryIdiot »

vectorpush wrote: post #73
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your concern is the possible extinction of humanity, I don't see how an arduous journey to a barren and inhospitable wasteland is of any use to the cause. I'm perplexed by this statement as the journey would be the exact opposite of what you purport. Are you saying that, unless we can travel to someplace that is very hospitable to life, that we shouldn't bother? How are we ever going to develop the technology to…

> Are you saying that, unless we can travel to someplace that is very hospitable to life, that we shouldn't bother? No. I'm saying that if the threat of human extinction is the GP's concern, a mission to Mars is very low on the list of solutions that will effectively mitigate that threat. > How are we ever going to develop the technology to go to such a theoretical place if we're not working on the technology already…

> No. I'm saying that if the threat of human extinction is the GP's concern, a mission to Mars is very low on the list of solutions that will effectively mitigate that threat.

Why is that low on the list? What threat are you referring to? Extinction level events can't be generalized because there are a huge amount of them many of which could leave the planet uninhabitable so I'm not sure why you're not only generalizing them but making it sound as if it's an unlikely solution against an unknown list of problems.

> Colonizing Mars does not scale as a defense against an extinction event

Care to explain why? Considering there are a large list of known (and probably a larger list of unknown) possible extinction events, many of which could wipe out the entire human race almost instantly, off world makes the most sense as part of a system designed to ensure the human race can stay around forever (or at least past an extinction level event).

> any problems we might face on Earth will certainly be present on Mars

False depending on what this extinction level event is. There are a great many things that could make Earth less habitable than Mars (though most of them most likely temporary).

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