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PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

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Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#141

Post by vegabook »

dang wrote: post #130
vegabook wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what I am suggesting. There is no urgent necessity to add any new core language features to 2.7. That's what you 3 guys just don't get. I certainly don't need asyncio as much as I need vectorised numerics, and if I needed asyncio, I had at least 5 libraries already. I most definitely will never be type annotating Python. Cloud cuckoo land. Let me warn you. If you persist with your propaganda on Python…

> you 3 guys ... Cloud cuckoo land ... your propaganda ... Does that register with you guys? Your comments have been crossing into incivility. Please don't do that; it breaks the site rules and leads to tedious flamewars. I'm sure you can make your argument civilly and substantively if you try.

I was overly aggressive. It's regrettable. But every point I made has been seriously contemplated, and is in my opinion worthy of consideration. The extent to which the 2.7 community and its arguments, are treated with derision by the 3.x people, makes some form of vigorous defence sometimes necessary. I'll add that unlike a large silent group of Python people who basically agree with me, I am not afraid to spend karma points speaking up against the received wisdom unambiguously and forcefully.

Now that I have made all my points, it's bye-bye.py. I won't comment on Python again.

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#142

Post by takeda »

auscompgeek wrote: post #127
scardine wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In variable names, for example. You can do this: >>> π = 3.14 In Python 2: >>> π = 3.14 File " ", line 1 π = 3.14 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Python 2.7.10 (850edf14b2c7, Oct 29 2015, 17:32:05) [PyPy 4.0.0 with GCC 5.2.0] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>>> π = 3.14 File " ", line 1 π = 3.14 ^ SyntaxError: Unknown character Are you sure you weren't trying it in Python 3 (or PyPy3) rather than PyPy?

I'm getting same result as scardine:

    Python 2.7.8 (default, Sep 30 2014, 15:34:38) [GCC] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> π = 3.14
      File "", line 1
        π = 3.14
        ^
    SyntaxError: invalid syntax
    >>>
also:

    Python 3.4.1 (default, May 23 2014, 17:48:28) [GCC] on linux
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> π = 3.14
    >>> print(π)
    3.14

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#143

Post by gvalkov »

vegabook wrote: post #140
gvalkov wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You contribute the same borderline FUD in every thread that is related to Python. It's unfortunate that Python is not the language you want it to be, but consider just how dismissive you are of the needs of others - frankly, it comes across as arrogant.

FUD? I have >100k lines of highly sophisticated numerical analysis Numpy/Python code in fixed income which has cost literally millions of dollars. I'm not going to let that investment get toyed with by the webified 3.x crew without vigorously stating my point.

Could Python 3 host the features you want? If it did, would you consider migrating your code-base to it? I'm positive that if your ideas have merit and you share them on the python-ideas mailing list, you'll get a good discussion out of it at the very least.

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#144

Post by dang »

vegabook wrote: post #141
dang wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you 3 guys ... Cloud cuckoo land ... your propaganda ... Does that register with you guys? Your comments have been crossing into incivility. Please don't do that; it breaks the site rules and leads to tedious flamewars. I'm sure you can make your argument civilly and substantively if you try.

I was overly aggressive. It's regrettable. But every point I made has been seriously contemplated, and is in my opinion worthy of consideration. The extent to which the 2.7 community and its arguments, are treated with derision by the 3.x people, makes some form of vigorous defence sometimes necessary. I'll add that unlike a large silent group of Python people who basically agree with me, I am not afraid to spend kar…

> It's regrettable.

That makes it sound like you had no control.

Being rude is not "speaking up against the received wisdom", it's just being rude, and it's against the rules here. In the future, please post civilly and substantively or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#145

Post by tadlan »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #137
vegabook wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently registered on the Ocaml mooc ;-) Very intrigued by Nim too. Yes I find Golang to be dry and uninspiring, but as per one of my other comments, I get 20x the performance, and the concurrency model beats Asyncio hands down. Honestly I needed to get 360 gigabytes of JSON into Cassandra and Python was going to take 6 days (there is some light conditionality on each datapoint preventing a raw dump). I took 1.…

You're looking at this from the SV startup echo-chamber perspective. People use Python because the language gets out of the way fairly quickly to let you get things done fairly quickly. Sure, it isn't a rigorous engineering language, but the ratio of small projects that just need something good enough and easy to work with to large/complex projects requiring careful engineering is staggeringly large. While Python is…

Julia!!!!! The answer to all these problems, both for general and science programming.

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#146

Post by Nrpf »

oberstein wrote: post #131
vegabook wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently registered on the Ocaml mooc ;-) Very intrigued by Nim too. Yes I find Golang to be dry and uninspiring, but as per one of my other comments, I get 20x the performance, and the concurrency model beats Asyncio hands down. Honestly I needed to get 360 gigabytes of JSON into Cassandra and Python was going to take 6 days (there is some light conditionality on each datapoint preventing a raw dump). I took 1.…

It will be interesting to see what the final winner of GPU programming looks like. There's also the possibility of FPGAs making their way into consumer hardware, and right now the pure-Python library MyHDL is a great choice for those. There are a few attempts at abstracting over OpenCL like https://github.com/eholk/harlan , and some intriguing domain specific attempts like http://halide-lang.org/ but I think it will…

Python Numba compiler (fast as julia) has a fair amount of Cuda and AMD HSA capability.

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#147

Post by Nrpf »

dragonwriter wrote: post #138
CuriouslyC wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking at this from the SV startup echo-chamber perspective. People use Python because the language gets out of the way fairly quickly to let you get things done fairly quickly. Sure, it isn't a rigorous engineering language, but the ratio of small projects that just need something good enough and easy to work with to large/complex projects requiring careful engineering is staggeringly large. While Python is…

> Believe me, I'd love a language with a really flexible/optional functional type system, better metaprogramming facilities, a better concurrency design, slightly more consistent syntax, etc - just as long as it is still easy to think in and convenient to use like Python. As someone who, among dynamic languages, dismissed Perl quite a while back as not as useful as Python and Ruby, I'm starting to think Perl 6 may be…

No please! Julia Julia Julia fills all those, but with beatiful python like syntax, lisp like macros when you wnat them, go like channels, distributed capabilities and leading class numerical stuff. Also webserver with a front end that you can build with polymer in Pure Julia.

http://escher-jl.org/

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#148

Post by Nrpf »

vegabook wrote: post #125
orf wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20 000 inserts per second from a 360 gig JSON file into Cassandra using 30 goroutines. I was maxing out at 900 in Python 3. Golang was parsing the JSON at a frankly RIDICULOUS 2 million lines per second. Python 3 was around 50 thousand. Newsflash, Go is fast. I'm sure those numbers will be worse in Py2 than Py3 as well, but aside from that what's your point? Python is slow so... don't switch to Python 3? > Python 3…

Newsflash. Python 3's main pragmatic selling points are Unicode and Async. Golang is Unicode by default, its concurrency model is much easier to reason about, and it's 20x faster. Why on earth would you use Python 3 (or 2) for your backend? You like buying 20 server boxes when 1 golang box will do? If you think Python will survive as a production language on servers, you're dreaming. It's done, defeated, history on t…

Julia has multithreading and channels. Better syntax than go, more like python. Better for numerics...why use anything else?

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#149

Post by pwang »

timeu wrote: post #97
fijal wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, but BLAS only helps you with some operations and not others. In fact most of "basic" operations are still done "by hand" in some templated C in numpy. Additionally, doing vectorized operations lazily (which is not present right now in pypy but was at least considered in the past) yields great improvements.

sounds great. I have a scientfic library that relies on a mix of loops and matrix multiplication. I need to find some time to test it with PyPy

Have you also checked out Numba? JIT and type inference, but native to CPython and designed for numerics:

http://numba.pydata.org

Re: PyPy 4.0.0 Released – A Jit with SIMD Vectorization and More

#150

Post by scardine »

auscompgeek wrote: post #127
scardine wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In variable names, for example. You can do this: >>> π = 3.14 In Python 2: >>> π = 3.14 File " ", line 1 π = 3.14 ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Python 2.7.10 (850edf14b2c7, Oct 29 2015, 17:32:05) [PyPy 4.0.0 with GCC 5.2.0] on linux2 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>>> π = 3.14 File " ", line 1 π = 3.14 ^ SyntaxError: Unknown character Are you sure you weren't trying it in Python 3 (or PyPy3) rather than PyPy?

You are right, this is Python 3 stuff. I just assumed the parent was talking about Pypy3.
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