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UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

independent.co.uk

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Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#51

Post by tomp »

andygates wrote: post #42
scrollaway wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are scared of what they're told is scary. You and I aren't scared of being bitten by a black widow while we sleep because we know the chances are remote (or in my case, nonexistant given where I live), and it's not really something we think about. The media constantly harassing the population with the big bad scary terrorist who's out to get you, of course people watching said media are going to be scared of t…

Arguing the obvious: you're saying that they should fear the big scary police state. That's exactly "people are scared of what they're told is scary".

You're more likely to be killed by police than by terrorists (in the US, possibly not in the UK). The police can legally detain you, steal your property (again in the US), and whatever they do illegaly is usually not punished. If that's not reason enough to scare you, then I'm assuming you don't have many fears.

In theory, I definitely support a surveilance state, with powerful law-enforcement agencies. In practice, none of the states on Earth are trustworthy enough not to abuse that power.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#52

Post by notahacker »

madaxe_again wrote: post #30
wfunction wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're far more likely to be killed by alcohol induced liver damage Try telling that to someone who doesn't drink.

That's probably still more likely than being in a terror attack.

And the terror attack is probably still more likely than having one's laptop seized under anti-terror laws...

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#53

Post by scrollaway »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #31
scrollaway wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are scared of what they're told is scary. You and I aren't scared of being bitten by a black widow while we sleep because we know the chances are remote (or in my case, nonexistant given where I live), and it's not really something we think about. The media constantly harassing the population with the big bad scary terrorist who's out to get you, of course people watching said media are going to be scared of t…

That's not simple at all, especially if you don't want to become what you fight and restrict freedom of the press while you're doing it.

> That's not simple at all

I did not mean simple in terms of implementation; you're absolutely right :)

> and restrict freedom of the press while you're doing it

Yeah. I think there's better ways. There's a lot to it... we need to incentivize media to report on the facts without twisting them, criminalize abuses of trust and power, create meaningful "trust rating" systems that actually impact audiences' willingness to follow certain sources (like we have with restaurants).

"You can't say x" is a pointless game of whack-a-mole and has the arbiter as a single point of failure. We need a better system altogether.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#54

Post by andyjohnson0 »

Lockyy wrote: post #48
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you would hesitate at calling Frankenstein human " Completely off topic nit-pick, and not to devalue your point (which I fully agree with), but Frankenstein was the scientist not the monster.

But when you think about it, wasn't Frankenstein the real monster?

Frankenstein's moral corruption due to his thirst for knowledge is the main theme of the book.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#55

Post by arethuza »

fit2rule wrote: post #19
peteretep wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's pretty much the only country in Europe that's never had a facist government.

Nice doublespeak. What you really mean is that its the one country in the world you would expect fascism to rise as it has been, since the UK has always had a classist bent to its politics and requires the underclass to serve at the behest of the elite. Those who have seen the other side of the Imperial table at which the UK dines know full well that the 'slide into fascism' is really just an unveiling.

I got around to reading "A Very British Coup" last week - amazing that the book is over 30 years old, I would expect the outcome described in the book to occur if the current leader of the Labour party actually got into power (mind you - not that this very likely).

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#56

Post by camexp »

pjc50 wrote: post #45
Asbostos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still democracy and it still protects against extreme runaway government power. Ultimately the issue is that people want this. People are scared of terrorists. People do want the government to bend the rules to track them down. That's exactly what democracy is supposed to be. What it's not supposed to be is what everyone wants, fair, right or ensuring people's information is kept secret from the government. In s…

extreme runaway government power It's always strange to me to compare the response to Islamic terrorism with the response to IRA terrorism. The latter was more deadly in the UK, but the illiberal response was mostly contained within Northern Ireland itself. Yet people seem far more scared about Islamic terrorism and far more willing to encourage a brutal response. Is this simply down to racism? (Censorship has long b…

Reminds me of a certain programme. "...under broadcasting restrictions he must inhale helium to subtract credibility from his statements." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOUeauLWEaE

After reading the "Welcome" page, this post should probably be deleted, even though I think it is at least vaguely relevent, but is effectively comedy. Sorry about that.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#57

Post by wfunction »

steckerbrett wrote: post #24
wfunction wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're far more likely to be killed by alcohol induced liver damage Try telling that to someone who doesn't drink.

As a population, not you specifically.

Yes but the first person people care about is themselves, not the rest of the population.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#58

Post by [deleted] »

XJOKOLAT wrote: post #11

In the title, change "UK" to "Chinese State" and you might not bat an eyelid. The democracy we have is a Frankenstein version of the democracy many think we have. And in the same way you would hesitate at calling Frankenstein human, I would hesitate at calling what we have a democracy. I'll still have it over the alternatives but what a mediocre state we've ended up in. Needs to be fixed.

[deleted]

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#59

Post by notahacker »

pjc50 wrote: post #45
Asbostos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still democracy and it still protects against extreme runaway government power. Ultimately the issue is that people want this. People are scared of terrorists. People do want the government to bend the rules to track them down. That's exactly what democracy is supposed to be. What it's not supposed to be is what everyone wants, fair, right or ensuring people's information is kept secret from the government. In s…

extreme runaway government power It's always strange to me to compare the response to Islamic terrorism with the response to IRA terrorism. The latter was more deadly in the UK, but the illiberal response was mostly contained within Northern Ireland itself. Yet people seem far more scared about Islamic terrorism and far more willing to encourage a brutal response. Is this simply down to racism? (Censorship has long b…

Not really. The IRA was a relatively easy-to-understand phenomenon, and in the mainland UK generally saw causing civilian casualties as an propaganda own goal to be reduced through coded warnings rather than a means to achieve greater status in Paradise. And policing in Northern Ireland was far more draconian than occasionally confiscating journalists' laptops when politely questioning them might have yielded more useful results.

The 3.5k killings perpetrated by all sides over the course of the Troubles over many years also rather pales in comparison with the body count in the overseas conflicts that ISIS is also recruiting for.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#60

Post by celticninja »

Asbostos wrote: post #12
XJOKOLAT wrote: post #11

In the title, change "UK" to "Chinese State" and you might not bat an eyelid. The democracy we have is a Frankenstein version of the democracy many think we have. And in the same way you would hesitate at calling Frankenstein human, I would hesitate at calling what we have a democracy. I'll still have it over the alternatives but what a mediocre state we've ended up in. Needs to be fixed.

It's still democracy and it still protects against extreme runaway government power. Ultimately the issue is that people want this. People are scared of terrorists. People do want the government to bend the rules to track them down. That's exactly what democracy is supposed to be. What it's not supposed to be is what everyone wants, fair, right or ensuring people's information is kept secret from the government. In s…

or what the media says the voters demand.

Because I remember a million voters marching against the iraq war in 2003 and the politicians did nothing about those voters demands, what they did was whatever tony had agreed with george 12 months earlier regardless of the will of the people.

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