UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#31

Post by johncolanduoni » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:39 AM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #21

Asbostos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still democracy and it still protects against extreme runaway government power. Ultimately the issue is that people want this. People are scared of terrorists. People do want the government to bend the rules to track them down. That's exactly what democracy is supposed to be. What it's not supposed to be is what everyone wants, fair, right or ensuring people's information is kept secret from the government. In s…

People are scared of what they're told is scary. You and I aren't scared of being bitten by a black widow while we sleep because we know the chances are remote (or in my case, nonexistant given where I live), and it's not really something we think about. The media constantly harassing the population with the big bad scary terrorist who's out to get you, of course people watching said media are going to be scared of t…

That's not simple at all, especially if you don't want to become what you fight and restrict freedom of the press while you're doing it.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#32

Post by raverbashing » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:40 AM UTC

petewailes wrote: post #14

junto wrote: post #6

Short term gain for long term pain from the security services here. Journalists and researchers into Islamic groups like IS, should be left in peace to carry out research into how these militant groups operate and function. The security services have struggled to make inroads on these groups. Unable to place effective spies and get Intel, especially on home grown cells. Journalists therefore provide a double function…

I'm fairly certain you don't actually know anything like enough people who work for any of the security services in the UK to make this an informed opinion. Because you couldn't be more wrong. A populist viewpoint with no basis whatsoever in reality. Not surprising, but disappointing. For the avoidance of doubt, no, I don't support what's happened here. It's ill-judged (no pun intended) to say the least.

Good thing that you added nothing to the discussion then

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#33

Post by madaxe_again » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:41 AM UTC

Asbostos wrote: post #12

XJOKOLAT wrote: post #11

In the title, change "UK" to "Chinese State" and you might not bat an eyelid. The democracy we have is a Frankenstein version of the democracy many think we have. And in the same way you would hesitate at calling Frankenstein human, I would hesitate at calling what we have a democracy. I'll still have it over the alternatives but what a mediocre state we've ended up in. Needs to be fixed.

It's still democracy and it still protects against extreme runaway government power. Ultimately the issue is that people want this. People are scared of terrorists. People do want the government to bend the rules to track them down. That's exactly what democracy is supposed to be. What it's not supposed to be is what everyone wants, fair, right or ensuring people's information is kept secret from the government. In s…

How incredibly naif. As others point out media control has got to the point that the people always want what they're told they want, and if they don't, too bad, they're getting it anyway.

I suppose you're one of these poor bairns who quakes under his bedsheets at the thought of the ghost of Bin Laden coming back to be Muslim in your presence?

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#34

Post by crdoconnor » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:42 AM UTC

Asbostos wrote: post #12

XJOKOLAT wrote: post #11

In the title, change "UK" to "Chinese State" and you might not bat an eyelid. The democracy we have is a Frankenstein version of the democracy many think we have. And in the same way you would hesitate at calling Frankenstein human, I would hesitate at calling what we have a democracy. I'll still have it over the alternatives but what a mediocre state we've ended up in. Needs to be fixed.

It's still democracy and it still protects against extreme runaway government power. Ultimately the issue is that people want this. People are scared of terrorists. People do want the government to bend the rules to track them down. That's exactly what democracy is supposed to be. What it's not supposed to be is what everyone wants, fair, right or ensuring people's information is kept secret from the government. In s…

>Ultimately the issue is that people want this. People are scared of terrorists. People do want the government to bend the rules to track them down. That's exactly what democracy is supposed to be.

The actual fear these days is pretty low. The government manufactured consent for "chasing terrorists" by 9/11 and is now relying upon political inertia to keep and gradually expand those powers.

>In short, politicians do what their voters demand.

Or rather, politicians try to shape voter opinion in such a way that they accept the reforms being rammed down their throats without too much protest.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#35

Post by ck2 » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:45 AM UTC

Will UK folks actually protest this or have they become like the US public, completely complacent and apathetic to all intrusions, as long as they can still go shopping at the mall, watch football and get drunk every weekend?

So the pattern is basically, pass insane laws because "terrorist" then use the incredibly broad and overreaching laws beyond abuse for anything they want to do.

Exactly the pattern law enforcement does with every single tool they are given, physical or virtual.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#36

Post by madaxe_again » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:46 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #4

maweki wrote: post #3

And why exactly are people wondering that it's always the fictionalized UK that turns into a fascist dictatorship and not any other country?

Because it's pretty much the only country in Europe that's never had a facist government.

Hehe, that's a good one. The UK has pretty much the only European fascist government to survive the second world war.

I mean, what else would you call close collusion between "loyal" industry and state? WWII wasn't "freedom v. fascism" - it was one lot of fascists against the others - and the ones that won just had better branding. Fewer skulls on uniforms, just as much pomp and pageantry, more economic fascism than social.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#37

Post by jarek » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:47 AM UTC

Paul_S wrote: post #5

I'm scared by how terror laws can be used to justify anything the state wants to do. I think it's too late to stop it now.

Far from the first time - they used them to try to settle a banking dispute with Iceland once!

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#38

Post by mirimir » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:48 AM UTC

Reporters ought to protect their sources. Nothing that's discoverable should contain sensitive information. In UK, encryption doesn't suffice. Maybe there's a market for anonymous contact management.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#39

Post by crdoconnor » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:48 AM UTC

collyw wrote: post #18

steckerbrett wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are scared of terrorists. Are they? If they are it's irrational, you're far more likely to be killed by a falling fridge or alcohol induced liver damage. Attacking a bogyman in an attempt to take eyes off what your government is really doing is quite sickening. Everyone would be significantly better off if we stopped parading around with 'defense' funding and put it to something with a perceivable impact lik…

Sadly the Guardian did a study on it recently, and the UK public's number one fear was of a terrorist attack. The propoganda is working.

You ask people what they consider a geopolitical threat (a pretty abstract concept at the best of times) and they say terrorism because that's what's talked about in the news all the time.

You ask what they're actually afraid of and it's knife crime, snakes and dying alone. Dying in a terrorist attack is probably, like, #75 on that list.

Re: UK police use terror powers to seize BBC Newsnight journalist's laptop

#40

Post by bainsfather » Fri, Oct 30, 2015, 8:59 AM UTC

gaius wrote: post #25

lucaspiller wrote: post #10

The BBC article has some more on this [0]: > "It did not resist Thames Valley's application for an order under the Terrorism Act in court because the act does not afford grounds under which it could be opposed. > "It is troubling that this legislation does not provide the opportunity for the media to mount a freedom of speech defence." [0] http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34666281

Was it freedom of speech when the BBC informed the Argentines that their bomb fuses were wrongly set to attack British ships, or when they warned them of the impending attack on Goose Green? I get what you're saying but the BBC plays both sides of this argument.

You are aware that it was the Number 10 (Prime Minister's office) that provided the information on Goose Green to the BBC, the BBC then reported it?

The worst/only criticism of the BBC that I have read (from e.g. Mrs Thatcher's autobiography) is that the BBC should have double-checked with the PM's office to make sure they'd not really been so incompetent as to 'unintentionally' announce news of an impending operation.