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How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

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Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#11

Would this open possibilities for a direct machine to machine network that didn't go over the internet? (I.e. could I set up something to ssh to my home server from my laptop without needing wifi/cellular coverage?

The data rate is really low. So maybe, if you are patient and are not much more than a mile from home.

Data rate in the US is something like 11kbps. So you'd have to be really patient.

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#12
post #2

Lower power, but highly processed radio signals are fascinating to me. I've been playing with WSPR on the 10 meter band which is fixing (hopefully) to open up a little here over the next couple of months. With about 1/10th of the power of my Wi-Fi router and a long wire over top of the house, I've been picked up so far this year in California from Ohio. Last year I was heard almost daily in Europe. A blogger I follow…

One of my most memorable moments in amateur radio was making a JT65 contact - 1 watt, from the north-central US to the island of Reunion, roughly 10k Kilometers.

And that was on a very ad-hoc wire antenna.

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#13
This is un. fucking. real. I work in the IoT space (specifically on health devices), and something like this would be absolutely a GOD SEND for the things that we're doing.

The current "hottness" in our space is bluetooth low energy (BLE). This is super low power (or, rather: chips that are really good at going to deep sleep, and then coming online very quickly to burst some data out), but the range on BLE isn't great.

Some companies use general purpose radios (these guys: http://www.glowcaps.com/ are basically an couple of atmega 328s and some 433mhz radios) for range, but it seems like everything is moving towards BLE because you can use your cellphone/tablet as a base station.

If LORA can seriously get this sort of range (I'm skeptical, honestly), then that is a total game-changer for IoT.

A friend of mine at a chip manufacturer in town was telling me about some radio thing they were doing that had range like this about a year ago, but I didn't believe him. That little of power, for that long of range seems like straight-up magic.

Super cool stuff! Very excited to see this really happening!

Not to get too silly, but this about sums up how this makes me feel with regards to IoT: https://media.giphy.com/media/rl0FOxdz7CcxO/giphy.gif

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#14
post #2

Lower power, but highly processed radio signals are fascinating to me. I've been playing with WSPR on the 10 meter band which is fixing (hopefully) to open up a little here over the next couple of months. With about 1/10th of the power of my Wi-Fi router and a long wire over top of the house, I've been picked up so far this year in California from Ohio. Last year I was heard almost daily in Europe. A blogger I follow…

What's your callsign? I'll see if I can pick you up with my RTL-SDR+Ham-it-up and maybe once I have my ham license I'll talk back.

Every now and then I find a post on HN that really makes my day and I realize how awesome this community is and how our interests overlap beyond computer programming and entrepreneurship. This is one of them.

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#15
post #14
post #2

Lower power, but highly processed radio signals are fascinating to me. I've been playing with WSPR on the 10 meter band which is fixing (hopefully) to open up a little here over the next couple of months. With about 1/10th of the power of my Wi-Fi router and a long wire over top of the house, I've been picked up so far this year in California from Ohio. Last year I was heard almost daily in Europe. A blogger I follow…

What's your callsign? I'll see if I can pick you up with my RTL-SDR+Ham-it-up and maybe once I have my ham license I'll talk back. Every now and then I find a post on HN that really makes my day and I realize how awesome this community is and how our interests overlap beyond computer programming and entrepreneurship. This is one of them.

Not the OP but I'm on WSPR on 20m right now as KC2ZUF!

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#16
post #3

I'm intrigued. Anyone want to suggest an economical development board or transceiver?

For LoRa, check out Multitech, LinkLabs, and Libelium. Semtech has a development board, too, though it would need to be paired with a microcontroller. Warning that most of this stuff is not for the faint of heart -- you need to be ready to dive into datasheets, bring up radio drivers, etc.

For Sigfox, if you're not in an area with a Sigfox network, there's not much you can do. But TI has some killer FSK dev boards. http://www.ti.com/tool/smartrftrxebk and http://www.ti.com/tool/cc1101cc1190emk915

Ingenu has radio modules and dev boards, but I don't think they're set up to sell single-unit quantity.

If you're in San Francisco, we're making a going to be distributing dev boards that will work out of the box and come with a bunch of sensors. Just sign up on our website: www.beepnetworks.com

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#17
post #13

This is un. fucking. real. I work in the IoT space (specifically on health devices), and something like this would be absolutely a GOD SEND for the things that we're doing. The current "hottness" in our space is bluetooth low energy (BLE). This is super low power (or, rather: chips that are really good at going to deep sleep, and then coming online very quickly to burst some data out), but the range on BLE isn't grea…

Cool stuff, sure. But, in my opinion, IoT will be slow to take off until the security aspect is solved - and it is a tough one.

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#18
Our offices are equipped with sensors with LoRa radio's. We're partnering with a local cell service provider (proximus.be) who are upgrading their base stations to be LoRa base stations and we're a pilot installation because we're developing software that does things with the sensor data (smart office type stuff, like adaptive cleaning schedules based on space utilization). The sensors are pre-configured for their network. You stick them to the wall, pull a latch, and they connect directly to the public base station, no additional hardware involved. Surprisingly, it works, and they're claiming five years battery life.

There are some downsides though. The sensor+radio combo's are custom orders for now, meaning they take too long to arrive and are too expensive. That issue will get solved over time. They also have an extremely low data rate. A single set of values every 15 minutes. That issue probably won't be solved. Still, you can learn a lot from a CO2 reading or a door opening counter reading even if it's only every 15 minutes.

The hard bit is the intelligent software that processes the data. If anything is the achilles heel of IoT it's that lots of data does not necessarily lead to any insights.

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#19
post #13

This is un. fucking. real. I work in the IoT space (specifically on health devices), and something like this would be absolutely a GOD SEND for the things that we're doing. The current "hottness" in our space is bluetooth low energy (BLE). This is super low power (or, rather: chips that are really good at going to deep sleep, and then coming online very quickly to burst some data out), but the range on BLE isn't grea…

Glad you agree. :)

We're putting up a LoRa network here in SF, and plan to publish a bunch of our test data, including link error rates and throughput. Urban deployments are new so more data will help us all understand what's doable. (There are a few rural deployments in production; less uncertainty there.)

Re: How New Long-Range Radios Will Change the Internet of Things

#20
post #17
post #13

This is un. fucking. real. I work in the IoT space (specifically on health devices), and something like this would be absolutely a GOD SEND for the things that we're doing. The current "hottness" in our space is bluetooth low energy (BLE). This is super low power (or, rather: chips that are really good at going to deep sleep, and then coming online very quickly to burst some data out), but the range on BLE isn't grea…

Cool stuff, sure. But, in my opinion, IoT will be slow to take off until the security aspect is solved - and it is a tough one.

Security in the LoRaWAN standard is well thought-through, you might be surprised.
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