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China to begin two-child policy

bbc.co.uk

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Re: China to begin two-child policy

#241

Post by xixi77 »

tremon wrote: post #62
MC7447a wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overpopulation is a non-problem. Fertility has fallow to near- or below-replacement rate everywhere in the world, except Afrika (which will likely follow in the next decades.) A nice talk from Hans Rosling on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA5BM7CE5-8

You mean, it is not a problem because the planet can support that many? Or do you mean it is a problem, but it will solve itself? I don't think either is correct. The first is only true today because non-First World inhabitants are living on a much smaller ecological footprint than Europe and the US. However, that footprint is increasing rapidly. The second reading at least acknowledges there is a problem, but I thin…

Historically, all such "carrying capacity" estimates have been shown wrong. What makes you believe the 7.7 one is any better?

Re: China to begin two-child policy

#242

Post by ionised »

bko wrote: post #100
sahreeg wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you. In terms of population alone, we are exceedingly multiplying; something that might not be of out best advantage. More even when you consider that there will be less opportunities for an increasing number of people, and we will lose this personal freedom you spoke of -to an extent- I am also pro child limit laws. I would suggest nothing too strict, just impose a tax on the third child and…

Human ingenuity is the world's greatest resource and leads to wealth creation and advancement of living standards. Limiting population growth would be ill-advised.

The problem with this line of thinking is that "someone in the future will fix our problems" doesn't inspire much assurance.

Some believe we should limit growth now, thus potentially preventing the problem before it becomes, well, a problem.

Nobody is suggesting nobody has children. People will still be born, discoveries made etc.

Re: China to begin two-child policy

#243

Post by jonahx »

moistgorilla wrote: post #226
Dylan16807 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't consider any punishment the responsibility of a criminal, then I think you're using a different definition of 'responsible' than most people, and this might actually be a semantic argument rather than anything meaningful.

> responsible : having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, as part of one's job or role. The criminal is only responsible for breaking the law, the only thing he had control over before he was caught (assuming he was caught for the sake of argument). We as society are responsible for dealing out the punishment. How could the criminal be responsible for the punishment when he is…

Honestly curious: Are you making an argument that laws and punishments for breaking them are wrong across the board? Or are you saying that the laws might be just in some cases, and the punishment a necessary evil, but that even in those cases you think it's important to place responsibility on the enforcers of those laws?

Re: China to begin two-child policy

#244

Post by vinceyuan »

One-child policy began in 1979. In 1980, My mother hid in her relatives' houses and finally delivered her second child - me. I was very lucky because if my mother was caught, I can't sit here to type these sentences.

I do understand the one-child policy because there are too many people in China, especially in cities. The population should be under control. (However, as far as I know, one-child policy never really works in the very poor area. It's common to have 3+ children there.)

In recent decades, China becomes much richer and people have better education. Many families (in cities) get used to having only one child and don't want to have the second child because the cost of raising a child becomes very high. Two-child policy should come earlier.

Re: China to begin two-child policy

#245

Post by MacsHeadroom »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #233
moistgorilla wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> responsible : having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, as part of one's job or role. The criminal is only responsible for breaking the law, the only thing he had control over before he was caught (assuming he was caught for the sake of argument). We as society are responsible for dealing out the punishment. How could the criminal be responsible for the punishment when he is…

I think most people would say that if the punishment is justified then the responsibility is transitive.

The punishment being justified depends entirely on whether or not the law itself is just (e.g. capital punishment is largely considered to be a legal injustice). Whether or not responsibility is transitive a separate, but important, matter.

As it turns out, responsibility for statutory laws is only transitive when applied to a party to the statute (e.g. a lawmaker or the enforcer).

A thief is responsible for restitution because depriving someone of their property is violation of natural law. A party who breaks a contract is responsible for fulfilling the terms they agreed to, because they made that agreement.

A thief, or a party who breaks a contract, is not responsible for a _statutory law_ enforced against them (unless they are a law maker or the law enforcer).

The creators and enforcers of the statue are responsible for creating it and enforcing it. They are responsible for its outcome, whether that is a dead murderer or a dead baby.

Re: China to begin two-child policy

#246

Post by nocman »

nsxwolf wrote: post #162
funkyy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China managed to succeed in increasing people wealth and loosening laws (still bad for Western standards, but huge step comparing to China 30 years ago). Only because West thinks this is "brutal and cruel" dosent mean our laws would ever worked there. Some tried giving Arab countries democracy and it turned out they never really wanted it and most of the dictators were much better alternative (still bad, just better…

Yes, forced abortions and drownings of infants are sometimes necessary in some cultures. We shouldn't judge.

No, forced abortions and drowning of infants is the result of a godless culture that does not believe in the sanctity of a human life.

If you can accept these as being OK because they are occurring in a different culture, then my only response is "God help you".

Re: China to begin two-child policy

#248

Post by erispoe »

vinceyuan wrote: post #244

One-child policy began in 1979. In 1980, My mother hid in her relatives' houses and finally delivered her second child - me. I was very lucky because if my mother was caught, I can't sit here to type these sentences. I do understand the one-child policy because there are too many people in China, especially in cities. The population should be under control. (However, as far as I know, one-child policy never really wo…

Why is there too many people in China? What is the standard to determine the right population?

Re: China to begin two-child policy

#249

Post by moistgorilla »

jonahx wrote: post #243
moistgorilla wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> responsible : having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, as part of one's job or role. The criminal is only responsible for breaking the law, the only thing he had control over before he was caught (assuming he was caught for the sake of argument). We as society are responsible for dealing out the punishment. How could the criminal be responsible for the punishment when he is…

Honestly curious: Are you making an argument that laws and punishments for breaking them are wrong across the board? Or are you saying that the laws might be just in some cases, and the punishment a necessary evil, but that even in those cases you think it's important to place responsibility on the enforcers of those laws?

The latter. If people took responsibility for their actions I believe injustices like forced abortions wouldn't happen as often. I can imagine it's very easy for somebody that is forcing a woman to have an abortion at 8.5 months pregnant to rationalize away what they are doing as upholding the law and that the government is responsible for what is happening.

Re: China to begin two-child policy

#250

Post by ZenoArrow »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #231
ZenoArrow wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Unlikely. The perceived benefits of eugenics would be too tantalizing for those social engineers in control of "licensing" the right to reproduce." What if the priorities of the eugenicists and other life licensers clash? For example, what if a known criminal was also the holder of some rare genes that would link up well with someone from the ruling class? > "Licenses would likely be tied to "merit", which is rath…

>So someone who is poor is of less "merit"? With the word in quotes like that? Absolutely yes.

Can you explain what you mean by that?
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