Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Avoid Spam Filters

mailchimp.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–28 of 28 posts

Re: How to Avoid Spam Filters

#21

Post by LordKano »

dexiwz wrote: post #3

This is a cop-out article that MailChimp can direct its customers to when they ask "how to disable spam filters." I worked in support for another ESP, and customers would often have unreasonable expectations about email delivery rates. Enough industries are corrupted, that customers thought that with enough money, we could bypass spam filters, or ensure 100% deliverability (never mind that half their email addresses…

The best answer, in my humble opinion, is "Don't send SPAM".

If you only send mail to people who have willingly opted in, not through trickery, pressure, inducement or some BS promotion, they'll actually want to read your mail and won't tolerate it being binned with the SPAM.

Unfortunately, a lot of business people don't get that.

Re: How to Avoid Spam Filters

#23

Post by CaptSpify »

ufmace wrote: post #12

I'd also add - your unsubscribe link should work, and work immediately, with no extra effort. There's no reason why it should take 48 hours for the unsubscribe to actually go through, or why I need to jump through 20 hoops after clicking unsubscribe to actually do it, or especially for the unsubscribe to not work at all. If your unsubscribe link is at all tricky, then I'm hitting report spam. Because you are, in fact…

Honestly, people shouldn't click the unsubscribe links anyway. Spammers use that as a way to make sure people are actually reading their emails.

Re: How to Avoid Spam Filters

#24

Post by mstolpm »

CaptSpify wrote: post #23
ufmace wrote: post #12

I'd also add - your unsubscribe link should work, and work immediately, with no extra effort. There's no reason why it should take 48 hours for the unsubscribe to actually go through, or why I need to jump through 20 hoops after clicking unsubscribe to actually do it, or especially for the unsubscribe to not work at all. If your unsubscribe link is at all tricky, then I'm hitting report spam. Because you are, in fact…

Honestly, people shouldn't click the unsubscribe links anyway. Spammers use that as a way to make sure people are actually reading their emails.

This is true for newsletters you never subscribed to in the first place. But unsubscribing from mailing lists you once subscribed to should be possible (and done) through the unsubscribe link. There are a lot of valid reasons (change of interest, frequency of mailings ...) and I agree with the parent that unsubscribe links should work immediately and not try to discourage you from unsubscribing.

Re: How to Avoid Spam Filters

#25

Post by xux »

LordKano wrote: post #21
dexiwz wrote: post #3

This is a cop-out article that MailChimp can direct its customers to when they ask "how to disable spam filters." I worked in support for another ESP, and customers would often have unreasonable expectations about email delivery rates. Enough industries are corrupted, that customers thought that with enough money, we could bypass spam filters, or ensure 100% deliverability (never mind that half their email addresses…

The best answer, in my humble opinion, is "Don't send SPAM". If you only send mail to people who have willingly opted in, not through trickery, pressure, inducement or some BS promotion, they'll actually want to read your mail and won't tolerate it being binned with the SPAM. Unfortunately, a lot of business people don't get that.

Except this isn't nearly enough. Email is quickly becoming like the SEO industry. It's not just enough to "have great content" to ensure you're ranked highly.

You have to manipulate it at the whims of the search engine / email provider.

Re: How to Avoid Spam Filters

#26

Post by thrownaway2424 »

Houshalter wrote: post #15
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #2

Unfortunately most people who are looking for an article like this are looking for "How to send spam and avoid spam filters", not "How to respect the attention of my valuable customers in such a way as to not offend their spam filters."

Tons of legitimate emails are caught in spam filters. The filter rules are mysterious and secret, and differ between clients. Gmail now has a >20% false positive rate for Linus Torvalds: https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/DiG9qANf5PA

That was a bug that was fixed. I would say someone like Linus Torvalds has a very unusual pattern of mail, getting a huge volume of mail from a single source that happens to be a mailing list.

Re: How to Avoid Spam Filters

#27

Post by Houshalter »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #26
Houshalter wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tons of legitimate emails are caught in spam filters. The filter rules are mysterious and secret, and differ between clients. Gmail now has a >20% false positive rate for Linus Torvalds: https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/DiG9qANf5PA

That was a bug that was fixed. I would say someone like Linus Torvalds has a very unusual pattern of mail, getting a huge volume of mail from a single source that happens to be a mailing list.

I wasn't aware of any bug. It's just that the spam filter is super hostile to emails from lesser known sources. This was posted just the other day: http://liminality.xyz/the-hostile-email-landscape/

It's about how it's basically impossible to set up your own mail server, because everyone assumes you are spam by default. They don't even give you a chance to prove otherwise.

Re: How to Avoid Spam Filters

#28

Post by dexiwz »

caminante wrote: post #9
dexiwz wrote: post #3

This is a cop-out article that MailChimp can direct its customers to when they ask "how to disable spam filters." I worked in support for another ESP, and customers would often have unreasonable expectations about email delivery rates. Enough industries are corrupted, that customers thought that with enough money, we could bypass spam filters, or ensure 100% deliverability (never mind that half their email addresses…

Have ESP's recovered any ground or power? A couple years ago, I looked at switching from an in-house email server to an ESP -- MailChimp being one. Right as I was performing the cost-benefit, two things happened: 1. Gmail started re-hosting email images, nullifying passive email-open detection features even if the user ALLOWED images.[1] 2. MailChimps added language around distribution caps. As a minor dealbreaker, E…

Not all ESPs force unsubscribe links. We ultimately put liability on our customers for CAN-SPAM compliance. We had CAN-SPAM compliance checks on by default, but they could be disabled. As to your original question, no, ESPs have not gained much in the way of power. I might be in the minority in my industry, but I think this is good. All of the arguments against page-based ads can be used against email-based ads. But in this case, the users have won, and have full power over their inbox.
Post reply on HN