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Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

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Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#171

Post by wpietri »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #129
aarontcheung wrote: post #125

I'm one of the founders of Homejoy. I'm still very passionate about the home service space. After leaving Homejoy, I started FlyMaids, where we're exploring a few different angles on the space. We recently acquired the customer and service provider data from Homejoy. We're a small team that has been focused on moving quickly while bootstraping. We tried to quickly test different approaches, but we realize now that we…

You're passionate about a "space"?

It's jargon, but people definitely are like that. There are a horde of people who just want to do Bitcoin or VR or video games, for example. They're less concerned with the specific company than something about the tech, the users, or the market.

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#172

Post by nostrademons »

aarontcheung wrote: post #125

I'm one of the founders of Homejoy. I'm still very passionate about the home service space. After leaving Homejoy, I started FlyMaids, where we're exploring a few different angles on the space. We recently acquired the customer and service provider data from Homejoy. We're a small team that has been focused on moving quickly while bootstraping. We tried to quickly test different approaches, but we realize now that we…

"When a management with a reputation for brilliance tackles a business with a reputation for bad economics, it is the reputation of the business that remains intact." -- Warren Buffett.

Why not get out now, lay low for a bit, take a job, learn another industry, and then save up to try again another day?

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#173

Post by roymurdock »

wpietri wrote: post #165
roymurdock wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When that mistake might be very costly litigation-wise, and anything you say/do might be brought up in court, it's time to break out the business speak and obfuscate like there is no tomorrow.

Maybe. That sort of nonsense may decrease the odds of losing a lawsuit. But you increase your odds of having a lawsuit, because you leave more people mad at you. That might be a good choice for a large company, as they already have lawyers on staff, can afford to pay for a lawsuit, and have enough money to advertise away the reputational stain. I'm not sure it's a good idea for a startup, though. Unless you are well…

Agreed, I think it would be better to be frank and honest in this situation. Just trying to provide some kind of rationale for why he responded in such a business-like manner.

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#174

Post by [deleted] »

crabasa wrote: post #156

I think it goes without saying that there is nothing remotely legitimate happening here. The fact that Aaron posted this comment and expected anybody to believe it is remarkable. That being said, I spent 5 minutes researching Aaron Cheung and I was astonished by what I found. He has a Twitter account, but has posted exactly 0 times [1]. He has an HN account, but has posted exactly 0 times [2], and only commented twic…

[deleted]

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#175

Post by chris_wot »

codezero wrote: post #164
chris_wot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was pretty clear, but I'm willing to elaborate. The requirement is that card data is securely removed when it is no longer required. They are no longer billing customers at HomeJoy as the business has been wound up, so the credit card data should have been deleted. Also: no customer has given them any right to have their credit card billed to an entirely new entity. Credit card information should not be…

Yeah, I get your position (hopefully!), but I think I'd rather hear from a lawyer whether this is OK or not, my guess is that it is OK. The snippet you pasted says also: ... regulatory, and/or business requirements A business that is going out of business may treat this data as a business asset and may need to retain it for a certain period even when they are inactive. Most terms of service do allow for transfer of a…

Yeah, you don't need to be a lawyer to implement PCI-DSS. You are entirely missing the following dot point:

"Processes for secure deletion of data when no longer needed"

Those dot points aren't using a disjunction, they must ALL be followed. The standard is very, very clear on that point: once you don't need the data, you securely delete it.

That makes sense, incidentally. If you no longer have the data anywhere, then nobody can get to it even if they compromise your systems and gain access to your credit card lists.

If your company winds down and you no longer bill your customers, you are absolutely required by PCI-DSS (and good security practice!) to delete that data.

As for HomeJoy being the same legal entity, that's not the way that the email sent from HomeJoy reads. It says that Fly Maids is their partner, not the same organisation.

That HomeJoy hasn't done this says to me they are cavalier with their customers data at best. I would not trust them with my credit card details, nor would I be happy letting them into my home.

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#176

Post by chetanahuja »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #85
gkoberger wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YC makes it very clear they will disavow any company or founder that acts unethically. YC is strict about very few things, but this was made clear in no uncertain terms (especially by Jessica). When things go bad, YC always gets involved – even if you don't read about it online. Don't blame YC just yet. We don't know what happened here. Maybe Homejoy went into debt, had their assets seized, and lost control (like wit…

Is this a new policy? Because the company that prompted me to start the list, Zenefits, is still a Paul Graham darling: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/654377298234224640 Or, might be that our definitions of unethical don't match up 100%. I consider spam to be unethical, maybe you just mean more serious offenses.

hmm... There were some previous threads about Zenefits where pretty much everyone (customer base mostly) that came in contact with Zenefits was unhappy for one reason for other. This seems to be a bit of a trend for them. The fact a VC is happy with the company simply shows the difference in incentives between investors in a company vs outsiders.

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#177

Post by jrochkind1 »

wpietri wrote: post #171
jrochkind1 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're passionate about a "space"?

It's jargon, but people definitely are like that. There are a horde of people who just want to do Bitcoin or VR or video games, for example. They're less concerned with the specific company than something about the tech, the users, or the market.

Oh, I understand being passionate about video games, or VR, or Bitcoin, or even, maybe, although it's a stretch, helping people keep their houses clean. And wanting to work in that area.

When you say you're passionate about a "space" though, I think you reveal that all you're really saying is you think you can make a lot of money in that "space". Which isn't passion at all. Well, maybe passionate about making money. Which is more like at best ambition or at worst greed, not actually passion.

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#178

Post by wangarific »

roymurdock wrote: post #159
birken wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, life is easier when you admit your mistakes without business speak, and just take the blame (for example: "I" instead of "We"). I've written a lot of mea culpas for mistakes which impacted customers, and the more direct and transparent I was, the better responses I always got. You made a mistake, you know you made a mistake. Admit it, apologize, and move on. Your excuses or context probably aren't g…

When that mistake might be very costly litigation-wise, and anything you say/do might be brought up in court, it's time to break out the business speak and obfuscate like there is no tomorrow.

It's time to lawyer up and not talk at all.

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#179

Post by chetanahuja »

chris_wot wrote: post #157
codezero wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to sound contrarian, but I don't mean to be. How does this violate PCI-DSS? The data itself is likely stored somewhere secure (who knows) – what's being displayed in the web app is the last four digits of the card and expiration date, this isn't where it's stored. There is obviously a question of what the retention should be, but it's definitely the case that payment information can be transferred between…

I thought it was pretty clear, but I'm willing to elaborate. The requirement is that card data is securely removed when it is no longer required. They are no longer billing customers at HomeJoy as the business has been wound up, so the credit card data should have been deleted. Also: no customer has given them any right to have their credit card billed to an entirely new entity. Credit card information should not be…

and umm... the OP was able to access their account details, including CC data over a plain HTTP connection.

Re: Didn’t Homejoy Shut Down?

#180

Post by adamhardin »

aarontcheung wrote: post #125

I'm one of the founders of Homejoy. I'm still very passionate about the home service space. After leaving Homejoy, I started FlyMaids, where we're exploring a few different angles on the space. We recently acquired the customer and service provider data from Homejoy. We're a small team that has been focused on moving quickly while bootstraping. We tried to quickly test different approaches, but we realize now that we…

For user's to automatically log in, it appears that you didn't move data to FlyMainds as much as FlyMaids is the new face to the old HomeJoy site and database.
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