How to detect lies with a storytelling technique • Hacker News Board

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#101

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 10:47 PM UTC

dbbolton wrote: post #95

agumonkey wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remembered those tricks but not the movie it came from. How true is this though ? even innocent people cracks down under pressure even if they rebel against injustice at first. The amount of "intelligence" and organization to protect whatever dogma a government wants to protects scared me. Noticed the check mark when the student asked for a little humanity.

>How true is this though ? Which part? Honestly, I don't know how effective monitoring affect is per se but as a wild guess I'd say it's at least as accurate as a polygraph/coin flip. However, I think there is more weight in the idea that a story that is repeated verbatim like that is more likely to be fabricated or at least neglecting some of the truth (which is the takeaway I got from the article). Sleep deprivatio…

> >How true is this though ? > Which part?

the behavioral response. Going from angry/rebel -> submissive happened with innocent people, preferring to take a penalty rather than keeping on being treated this way.

Thanks for the pdf

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#102

Post by freshhawk » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:03 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #98

throw7 wrote: post #51

Well, at an airport security check I got interviewed before boarding and the guy asked me how I got here. I thought it was a weird question to ask and I answered I got here by airplane (I was in a foreign country visiting). He was totally non-plussed by the answer and said, "No, how did you get _here_?"... I was actually confused by the way he said it and he added, "What did you do this morning to get _HERE_?". I sai…

Probably the point of the question was to be confusing: it strikes me that if you give the brain something to work on - parsing and responding to a confusing question - it could make responding with false information more difficult. Imagine you were trying to remember the details of a false passport and an alibi for what you'd be doing - you get a weird question and your brain is then suddenly blank when you try to p…

Seems likely, also simply as a gauge to how you act while confused. A nervous person will probably be confused in a noticeably different way.

They tell bad jokes to see how much you laugh, suddenly put on annoyed or aggressive personas to see how you react to those, etc.

But your point about interrupting a liars narrative makes a lot of sense as well.

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#103

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:29 PM UTC

betenoire wrote: post #99

jacquesm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth is grounded in verifiable facts. You can be mistaken about facts, so that's easy enough to fix. Liars can't change their story because once they do the whole thing starts coming down, they can only keep so much of the fabricated universe in their head. That's mostly my interpretation of it, I've met only very few people that were lying outright during the course of many DDs but when they do that's how they all…

> From what I've seen it is very hard to keep the story straight over the course of a couple of weeks if it isn't true. Yes. I would add that it can be very hard to keep the story straight over the course of a couple weeks EVEN IF IT'S TRUE. That's what I was trying to say.

Sure but the teller then has no vested interest in keeping the facts and the story from deviating from each other whereas a liar does have that interest. So the liar can't 'fix' the story but the person that tries to be truthful has no problem.

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#104

Post by aggie » Wed, Oct 28, 2015, 11:51 PM UTC

iamsohungry wrote: post #62

caminante wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is easily ascribed to the fact that the liar is either making the story up as they go or are repeating a rehearsed lie. A truthful person can jump around easily because they are recounting distinct memories. Alternatively, the liar's experienced, good at his craft, and more capable of jumping around.

The best liars use the exhonerative voice to avoid telling a story about themselves at all: "Bags are subject to search" means "We will search your bags". "A shooting involving Tacoma County Police left two suspects dead" means "Tacoma County Police shot two suspects."

But those aren't lies, just a mixture of omission and clever wording to reframe the facts. They're used in unidirectional communication (a sign at the airport, a television broadcast), but don't hold up well when there are follow-up questions.

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#105

Post by notahacker » Thu, Oct 29, 2015, 12:06 AM UTC

barce wrote: post #52

This is seriously flawed for folks that suffer memory degradation under stress. tl;dr: the guy with amnesia is the liar.

I think the point of asking about senses is that memories of feelings are more consistent than memories of detail. And if it's being done properly, the person's answers are being benchmarked against their other answers. If you're struggling to remember a particular day at all then it's not necessarily held against you, but if your recollections of what was said and done at a particular event are hazy after you've calmly explained that you know you were there until at least 8pm because you got the 8:14 train home then...

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#106

Post by bpchaps » Thu, Oct 29, 2015, 1:08 AM UTC

danso wrote: post #92

iamsohungry wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best liars use the exhonerative voice to avoid telling a story about themselves at all: "Bags are subject to search" means "We will search your bags". "A shooting involving Tacoma County Police left two suspects dead" means "Tacoma County Police shot two suspects."

Huh? I'm not disputing that institutions carefully use the passive voice to clean their prose of negative connotations...but the two examples you mention are not "lies" 1. I've seen the "bags are subject to search" phrase many times, including the public library. I cannot remember the last time my bag was searched, even at the airport when the search is differentiated from the usual scan. So that phrase is definitely…

Principle of Charity, my friend. I'm not really sure where you got a negative vibe from his comment. It was more of a comment on how effective word-choice is on someone's symamantic tree.

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#107

Post by rokhayakebe » Thu, Oct 29, 2015, 1:26 AM UTC

dbbolton wrote: post #95

agumonkey wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remembered those tricks but not the movie it came from. How true is this though ? even innocent people cracks down under pressure even if they rebel against injustice at first. The amount of "intelligence" and organization to protect whatever dogma a government wants to protects scared me. Noticed the check mark when the student asked for a little humanity.

>How true is this though ? Which part? Honestly, I don't know how effective monitoring affect is per se but as a wild guess I'd say it's at least as accurate as a polygraph/coin flip. However, I think there is more weight in the idea that a story that is repeated verbatim like that is more likely to be fabricated or at least neglecting some of the truth (which is the takeaway I got from the article). Sleep deprivatio…

But just like every other form of torture its efficacy is highly questionable

This one truly baffles me. Man, as soon as I find myself tied on a chair, I would spill the whole bag of beans and more. Heaven forbids they pull out the pliers.

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#108

Post by alchemism » Thu, Oct 29, 2015, 3:44 AM UTC

frandroid wrote: post #74

sageikosa wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could be lying about whether they were lying in the past.

We're talking about legal contexts here. Almost no one, unless coerced/brutalized by police/DAs, admits to crimes they did not commit. And the you have the thing where you can verify their admission of guilt with corroborating details.

Sadly, there is a systematic problem in which many must plead guilty because they will be punished beyond measure if they do not. It is structural and endemic in American justice:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/nov/20/why-inn...

(EDIT: And this one) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/magazine/the-bail-trap.htm...

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#109

Post by dbbolton » Thu, Oct 29, 2015, 6:31 AM UTC

rokhayakebe wrote: post #107

dbbolton wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How true is this though ? Which part? Honestly, I don't know how effective monitoring affect is per se but as a wild guess I'd say it's at least as accurate as a polygraph/coin flip. However, I think there is more weight in the idea that a story that is repeated verbatim like that is more likely to be fabricated or at least neglecting some of the truth (which is the takeaway I got from the article). Sleep deprivatio…

But just like every other form of torture its efficacy is highly questionable This one truly baffles me. Man, as soon as I find myself tied on a chair, I would spill the whole bag of beans and more. Heaven forbids they pull out the pliers.

It shouldn't be baffling if you looked at the examples or study I posted, because the point definitely wasn't "torture doesn't get people to talk".

Re: How to detect lies with a storytelling technique

#110

Post by zhte415 » Thu, Oct 29, 2015, 10:28 AM UTC

throw7 wrote: post #51

Well, at an airport security check I got interviewed before boarding and the guy asked me how I got here. I thought it was a weird question to ask and I answered I got here by airplane (I was in a foreign country visiting). He was totally non-plussed by the answer and said, "No, how did you get _here_?"... I was actually confused by the way he said it and he added, "What did you do this morning to get _HERE_?". I sai…

This could also be an alternate way to ask "Did you pack your bags yourself? Did you leave them unattended?" to which everyone invariable answers 'yes'.