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Gotthard Base Tunnel

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Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel

#21

Post by ohitsdom »

rayiner wrote: post #12
ohitsdom wrote: post #9

I think self-driving vehicles will make projects like this even rarer. The two benefits this project achieves are: 1. Safer travel on rails instead of trucks (accidents & environmental) 2. Faster transport between regions (saving 1 - 1.5 hrs) Safety will become almost a non-concern with self driving cars. Work still needs to be done to minimize environmental impact, but electric cars are coming on strong. Faster tran…

This tunnel as well as its predecessor is mainly for rail travel. Trains are already far safer than cars (and there is no reason to believe self-driving cars will be safer than trains), and already let you work en route. Also, this tunnel is for freight rail too, and self-driving cars or trucks aren't really an alternative to that either. Also: productivity in the office > productivity in a train >> productivity as t…

Working inside of a self-driving car in the future will be much different from working inside a normal car. Current vehicles are primarily designed around the driving experience. When you don't need a steering wheel, gas/brake pedals, surrounding area visibility, a car's interior could be completely designed. No reason it shouldn't be on par with a private train car. It should certainly surpass regular train seating, since you don't have an aisle going through the center of the vehicle as a design constraint.

Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel

#23

Post by trhway »

Swizec wrote: post #18
dgorges wrote: post #7

Gotthard Tunnel The Gotthard Base Tunnel (GBT) is a railway tunnel through the Alps in Switzerland expected to open on 2 June 2016. - Length: 35.4 mi - Cost: $10.3 billion - Construction: 1996 - 2016 (est) Bay Bridge The San Francisco–Oakland Bay Bridge (known locally as the Bay Bridge) is a complex of bridges spanning San Francisco Bay in California. - Length: 4.46 miles - Cost: $6.5 billion - Construction: 2002 - 2…

How does average construction worker pay in Bay Area compare to Germany/Switzerland?

while i'm sure the issue with the costs here and there isn't labor/salary, googled out of curiosity - for welder in US it is $30-50K/year avg, in Germany - the government mandated minimum in non-East Germany is something like 14euro/hour, in the East - 11 euro/hour.

I also would be very surprised if the Germany/Switzerland were "outsourcing" the job to Chinese companies like the US does with big infrastructure projects. I mean everybody who ever dealt with outsourcing up close knows what in reality it is completely opposite to "cost savings", instead it is a way to "digest" even more money than it would be otherwise.

Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel

#24

Post by rayiner »

ohitsdom wrote: post #21
rayiner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tunnel as well as its predecessor is mainly for rail travel. Trains are already far safer than cars (and there is no reason to believe self-driving cars will be safer than trains), and already let you work en route. Also, this tunnel is for freight rail too, and self-driving cars or trucks aren't really an alternative to that either. Also: productivity in the office > productivity in a train >> productivity as t…

Working inside of a self-driving car in the future will be much different from working inside a normal car. Current vehicles are primarily designed around the driving experience. When you don't need a steering wheel, gas/brake pedals, surrounding area visibility, a car's interior could be completely designed. No reason it shouldn't be on par with a private train car. It should certainly surpass regular train seating,…

Getting rid of the driver doesn't get rid of physics. You can't make the car taller or wider or heavier without impacting fuel economy and stability. You can't get rid of intermittent stops for cross-traffic and pedestrian crossings. And you will never be able to match the smoothness of a heavy rail vehicle with a lightweight road vehicle.

Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel

#25

Post by [deleted] »

ohitsdom wrote: post #9

I think self-driving vehicles will make projects like this even rarer. The two benefits this project achieves are: 1. Safer travel on rails instead of trucks (accidents & environmental) 2. Faster transport between regions (saving 1 - 1.5 hrs) Safety will become almost a non-concern with self driving cars. Work still needs to be done to minimize environmental impact, but electric cars are coming on strong. Faster tran…

[deleted]

Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel

#26

Post by legulere »

Swizec wrote: post #18
dgorges wrote: post #7

Gotthard Tunnel The Gotthard Base Tunnel (GBT) is a railway tunnel through the Alps in Switzerland expected to open on 2 June 2016. - Length: 35.4 mi - Cost: $10.3 billion - Construction: 1996 - 2016 (est) Bay Bridge The San Francisco–Oakland Bay Bridge (known locally as the Bay Bridge) is a complex of bridges spanning San Francisco Bay in California. - Length: 4.46 miles - Cost: $6.5 billion - Construction: 2002 - 2…

How does average construction worker pay in Bay Area compare to Germany/Switzerland?

Why Germany? The Gotthard Basis Tunnel is in Switzerland and worker pay in Switzerland is considerably higher in Switzerland than in Germany and also probably the US

Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel

#27

Post by abalone »

syncsynchalt wrote: post #11
ohitsdom wrote: post #9

I think self-driving vehicles will make projects like this even rarer. The two benefits this project achieves are: 1. Safer travel on rails instead of trucks (accidents & environmental) 2. Faster transport between regions (saving 1 - 1.5 hrs) Safety will become almost a non-concern with self driving cars. Work still needs to be done to minimize environmental impact, but electric cars are coming on strong. Faster tran…

Not so much in this particular case — the purpose of the tunnel is to reduce heavy truck traffic through environmentally sensitive areas. The tunnel is explicitly built to satisfy a goal of transforming truck freight to rail freight. The fast passenger time is only listed as a side benefit.

Not to mention electric is not viable for long haul heavy trucking (for the foreseeable future).

Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel

#28

Post by abduhl »

trhway wrote: post #23
Swizec wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does average construction worker pay in Bay Area compare to Germany/Switzerland?

while i'm sure the issue with the costs here and there isn't labor/salary, googled out of curiosity - for welder in US it is $30-50K/year avg, in Germany - the government mandated minimum in non-East Germany is something like 14euro/hour, in the East - 11 euro/hour. I also would be very surprised if the Germany/Switzerland were "outsourcing" the job to Chinese companies like the US does with big infrastructure projec…

The minimum wage that can be paid for a tunnel hand in San Francisco is around $34/hr plus overtime and benefits. See http://www.dir.ca.gov/oprl/pwd/Determinations/Northern/NC-02...

You have to remember that tunnel jobs are almost always run by a municipality which means that they're almost always union. I would imagine it is similar in Switzerland.

Tunneling is a niche industry and commands a high price.

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